Playoff runs as good as 2009 LeBron? (minimum 10 games)

[TheMarkMadsen]

ummmmmmm......so one can know how far the playoffs are along

derp derp

exactly, that is why the final series of the playoffs are called the finals

[3ball]

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[COLOR="DarkRed"]Lebron achieves his stats lowering his teammates' PPG and APG.

Specifically, he turns them into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking) and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing):[/COLOR]



[COLOR="White"]................................................[/COLOR]APG, ASSIST %[COLOR="White"].......[/COLOR] ASSISTED RATE

Wade [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 6.6, 34.8%[COLOR="White"]..................[/COLOR]29.2% [COLOR="DarkGreen"]<---- links to nba.com data[/COLOR]
Wade [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="white"].....[/COLOR] 4.7, 25.5%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]40.3%

Irving [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (12'-14'):[COLOR="white"]....[/COLOR] 5.8, 33.2%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]31.9%
Irving [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Lebron[COLOR="white"]..[/COLOR] (2015):[COLOR="white"].....[/COLOR] 5.0, 25.6%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]32.7%

Bosh [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.5%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]55.8%
Bosh [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 1.6, 8.0%[COLOR="white"] ...................[/COLOR]71.6%

Love [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (09'-14'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.5, 13.0%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]62.7%
Love [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR] [COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]Lebron (15'-16'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.3, 11.4%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]80.0%

Mo Will [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (05'-08'):[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 5.7, 30.2%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]39.2%
Mo Will [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR]... Lebron (09'-10'):[COLOR="white"]..[/COLOR] 4.6, 22.3%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]47.6%


FYI...

Pippen [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Jordan 91'-93':[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 6.5, 24.5%
Pippen [COLOR="Navy"]w/out[/COLOR] Jordan 94'-95':[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 5.4, 23.7%
Pippen [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Jordan 96'-98':[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 5.8, 25.1%



Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

Futhermore, the supporting cast's predictable play-finishing roles don't work against the best playoff teams, which causes them to routinely underperform and play undercapacity in the Finals (the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates played poorly when it mattered) - since Lebron's teammates play undercapacity against the best teams, the TEAM plays undercapacity/underperforms (i.e. losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or losing when it was 50/50 - 2014 Finals).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. It's because he employs a point guard style from the forward position - this adds a 2nd low-assisted, high time of possession player IN ADDITION to the existing point guard, which gives teammates less opportunity to assist and less time with the ball than other teams whose forwards have normal assisted rates and time of possession.

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates - he elevated teammates so the team played to full capacity and never lost as the favorite.. Otoh, Lebron reduces teammates to play-finishers, which leads to team underperformance and losing as the favorite.
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[SouBeachTalents]

.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Lebron achieves his stats lowering his teammates' PPG and APG.

Specifically, he turns them into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking) and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing):[/COLOR]



[COLOR="White"]................................................[/COLOR]APG, ASSIST %[COLOR="White"].......[/COLOR] ASSISTED RATE

Wade [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 6.6, 34.8%[COLOR="White"]..................[/COLOR]29.2% [COLOR="DarkGreen"]<---- links to nba.com data[/COLOR]
Wade [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="white"].....[/COLOR] 4.7, 25.5%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]40.3%

Irving [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (12'-14'):[COLOR="white"]....[/COLOR] 5.8, 33.2%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]31.9%
Irving [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Lebron[COLOR="white"]..[/COLOR] (2015):[COLOR="white"].....[/COLOR] 5.0, 25.6%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]32.7%

Bosh [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.5%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]55.8%
Bosh [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 1.6, 8.0%[COLOR="white"] ...................[/COLOR]71.6%

Love [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (09'-14'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.5, 13.0%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]62.7%
Love [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR] [COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]Lebron (15'-16'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.3, 11.4%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]80.0%

Mo Will [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (05'-08'):[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 5.7, 30.2%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]39.2%
Mo Will [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR]... Lebron (09'-10'):[COLOR="white"]..[/COLOR] 4.6, 22.3%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]47.6%


FYI...

Pippen [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Jordan 91'-93':[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 6.5, 24.5%
Pippen [COLOR="Navy"]w/out[/COLOR] Jordan 94'-95':[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 5.4, 23.7%
Pippen [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Jordan 96'-98':[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 5.8, 25.1%



Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

Futhermore, the supporting cast's predictable play-finishing roles don't work against the best playoff teams, which causes them to routinely underperform and play undercapacity in the Finals (the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates played poorly when it mattered) - since Lebron's teammates play undercapacity against the best teams, the TEAM plays undercapacity/underperforms (i.e. losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or losing when it was 50/50 - 2014 Finals).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. This is easily explained with more stats.

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates - he elevated teammates so the team played to full capacity and never lost as the favorite.. Otoh, Lebron reduces teammates to play-finishers, which leads to team underperformance and losing as the favorite.

I think you've made this same exact post 2 dozen times

[3ball]

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[COLOR="DarkRed"]Imagine if your favorite player scored 5-7 more ppg in the playoffs on better efficiency across the board - that's what MJ did in comparison to Lebron:[/COLOR]


Career Playoffs - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. [COLOR="Navy"]48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg[/COLOR]
LEBRON: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. [COLOR="navy"]47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg[/COLOR]


Career Playoffs - PER 100 POSSESSIONS:

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Finals - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg


There's never been a number 1 option that scored 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring edge on superior efficiency is far more valuable than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) and 2.5 def rebound edge (MJ had more offensive rebounds).

Lebron's assist edge is particularly meaningless considering he achieves his assists by lowering his TEAMMATES' assists and playmaking, as the stats show in the previous post.

Furthermore, Jordan scored 10 more ppg than his 2nd option for every playoff series of his career AND led the team in passing (MJ led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats)... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.

[3ball]

I think you've made this same exact post 2 dozen times

It's very relevant to this thread because Lebron's teammates played undercapacity in the playoffs that year, so the TEAM played undercapacity and lost as the heavy favorite.

Lebron's teams have frequently played undercapacity because Lebron reduces his teammates' stats and forces them into a play-finishing role that can't succeed against the best playoff teams.

With Lebron making his teammates play undercapacity, the TEAM plays undercapacity and loses as the favorite, like they did each year during 2009-2011 playoffs.. It's all explained above..
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[beastee]

3ball...I was waiting for you to bring logic and reason to this dumbass thread.

[Hey Yo]

exactly, that is why the final series of the playoffs are called the finals

So why do you Kobe stans only refer to how well Kobe played in the playoffs against the WC.... but don't want to talk about just his Finals numbers against the East?

How come you Kobe stans always bring up LeBron's Finals numbers.... but never talk about just his playoff numbers?

If LeBron or Kobe gets to the Finals and loses.....do people say "they choked in the playoffs?"....no they say "they choked in the Finals."

They're 2 separate things