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Old 11-25-2012, 04:28 PM   #91
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
The Dark Knight is massively overrated. When Heath ledger/the Joker isn't on the screen the movie is basically long winded and dull. He is about the only thing that brings life to the 2nd sequel. The first movie is easily the best of the Nolan movies.
I agree with the 1st film being the best. Don't agree that TDK was massively overrated. TDK was a phenomenal experience not only because of the Joker but everything surrounding Gotham while he was terrorizing the city and also the transformation of Harvey Dent/Two Face.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:36 PM   #92
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Everybody already know i loved the trilogy. I wasn't too high on Ledgers joker, because it was less hilarious and more sadistic and psycho, and i grew up on the animated series. But that last movie, the way it tied everything together, was excellent. Plus the Bane vs Batman fight, the first one, that was epic. Bane is freaky.

Wouldn't care to change anything about it, minus Robin's name being Robin.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:09 PM   #93
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
The Dark Knight is massively overrated. When Heath ledger/the Joker isn't on the screen the movie is basically long winded and dull. He is about the only thing that brings life to the 2nd sequel. The first movie is easily the best of the Nolan movies.
Talking that crazy stuff again.

What is it with you and deeming anything massively beloved and clearly superior, overrated? MJ? TDK? Overrated? Haha far from it.

BEGINS is quality, don't get me wrong. It's good, but TDK is GREAT. Like another level of cinematic greatness. Let me break it down.

On film making terms, Nolan had yet to hit his stride, and Wally Pfiester's cinematography in TDK alone trumps the visuals from Batman Begins.

Bale carries that movie. In TDK you get ELITE level performances from the entire cast. Bale, Caine, Eckhart, Oldman, and Ledger.

BEGINS has Katie Holmes and hackneyed 3rd act. That alone brings it down a few notches. You can tell that after Batman makes his debut, the film that Nolan wanted to tell ends, and then kicks in blockbuster / superhero movie cliches ... and almost borderline cheese (which is inherent with superhero genre films)

TDK? Whole 'nother level. It raised the bar so high for this type of film, that even a great flick like TDK Rises would be held to a standard no other film in the genre can touch.

As a script, it's world's better. It makes relevant social commentary, has ridiculously well crafted dialogue (at times BEGINS has atrocious dialogue that beats you over the head with themes) ... and the whole fact that it is by far the best post 9/11 War On Terror allegory on film says something for it's level of relevance and depth.

TDK is a generational defining CLASSIC. Instant classic, even. Only idiots would say it's overrated or that the movie is crap outside of Ledger's Joker. It shattered genre expectations and cliches. When have you ever seen a superhero flick where essentially the villain wins at the end?

Btw, much of what you see of Ledger's Joker was on the script pages. So the character was written extremely well. Ledger brought it to life, with nuanced and frightening believability, but it was there on the page.

You can't just remove a major element of a story and then say the movie would suck without him. Of course it would, it would be a different story. The Joker is as iconic as the Batman. And watching two icons duke it out for the soul of a believable city is what made this movie special.

Saying TDK is overrated makes your thoughts on this subject completely invalid. It was a major game changer, and the crown jewel of the franchise. By far.

BEGINS is a good origin, and film with a lot of pathos ... and probably the best character study of Bruce Wayne we will see on film. It was fun seeing him put together a legend piece by piece. But TDK is where it all goes down. When the legend is tested by another juggernaut.

TDK is even superior down to it's action set pieces, which too were utterly amazing. And completely practical.

@ TDK being overrated. You should get smacked. Probably the only film I've seen that exceeded expectations in a major way.

It was a cinematic roller coaster that held you on the edge of your seat from start to finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneshot
I wasn't too high on Ledgers joker, because it was less hilarious and more sadistic and psycho
The Joker has plenty of dark, un-comfortable humor in TDK, just like the darkest incarnation of his character.

He literally views society as a joke. And IMO he was as funny if not more than Nicholson's Joker. He wasn't goofy, he just made jokes that made you feel uncomfortable to laugh at ... "magic trick", etc

And for like the 9th time, John Blake isn't "Robin" ... he's Robin John Blake. His first name merely being a tip of the hat to the inspiration.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:28 PM   #94
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Another point we fundamentally disagree on, I much preferred Katie Holmes to Maggie Gylenhaal for dramatic impact of having the same actress play the same character and honestly, Maggie Gylenhaal did not look attactive in The Dark Knight...
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:30 PM   #95
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Another point we fundamentally disagree on, I much preferred Katie Holmes to Maggie Gylenhaal for dramatic impact of having the same actress play the same character and honestly, Maggie Gylenhaal did not look attactive in The Dark Knight...

They were both terrible. The only female co star they got right in the trilogy was Anne Hathaway.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:34 PM   #96
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Yeah. Hathaway was great. Even Marion Cottilard was underused, undeveloped...
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:21 PM   #97
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Another point we fundamentally disagree on, I much preferred Katie Holmes to Maggie Gylenhaal for dramatic impact of having the same actress play the same character and honestly, Maggie Gylenhaal did not look attactive in The Dark Knight...
I'm not claiming Maggie as eye candy. But she can act circles around Katie Holmes.

Maggie had the tenacity and intelligence to make me believe she was a DA assistant. Katie Holmes was not convincing at all. Please, dude.

I don't think the character of Rachel was meant to be eye candy. Anne Hathaway isn't eye candy either, but she can act.

Marion's character, if underused ... she clearly is a very good actress as well.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #98
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Haha, Nolan was planning on casting Rachel McAdams. Should've just done that instead. Good enough acting and good looking. But true enough, Maggie would look the part of a DA's assistant moreso than the other girls.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:29 AM   #99
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

I thought Rises sucked.
I like Batman and pick up a comic every now and then. I read the original story in which Bane "broke" the bat and I expected a lot out of this movie, but thought it was horrible.

This might be over the top, but below are some of the things I disliked about the movie.. If people liked it cool, this is just my (not so humble) opinion:

1.The beginning with the plane/blood transfusion thing didn't make any sense.
2. Bane had zero motive (apprentice of Rah, who wanted to destroy Gotham to "honour" his master, who disliked him. However, Gotham was all cleaned up and actually a nice city now, so why destroy it? Was it because he loved Talia, which was ridiculous?
3. Gotham was a great city now because of the "Dent" act. That's not what Gotham is supposed to be like. I know Nolan can do with the story whatever he wanted to, but that was dissapointing.
4. Batman was out for 7 years!! he turned into the anti Bruce Wayne. horrible.. what a way to reveal your identity also.
5. Robin. Who knew Batman's identity, because of the look in his eye.
6. Rahs Ghost coming to visit Bruce.
7. Bruce's recovery in "hell" with world's worst criminals, who were quite nice and helpfull and had TV in there.
8. The jump. like there was no way these people could climb out of a pit with all the tools they had. Then a little girl who's like 4 ft tall makes the damn jump. Bla bla it's not about physical strength this that. still ridiculous.
9. Talia
10. Bane living in the sewers with hoodlums who will follow him no matter what and can take over an entire city just by walking around with guns. lol.
11 The whole nuclear bomb thing.
12. the batplane way to stick with the realistic/dark/edgy vibe they had in the first two movies.
13. Catwoman, masterthief, utlimate seductress - corny as hell. Over the top acting. stupid suit.
14. People with big guns running up to fistfight batman. Why? just shoot him already. Same with the cops/bad guys fight in the end. They all have guns but just run up to fight eachother instead of shoot.
15. batman being in gotham all of a sudden in the end.
16. Bane wearing a mask like a painkiller thingie.. He was nothing more than a big brute with a strange voice. Mastermind? When did he come across as a mastermind? What happend to the venum. Why was he as tall as Batman and how was he able to take 10 superhard punches to the face without going KO?

end rant.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:57 AM   #100
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toizumi
I thought Rises sucked.
I like Batman and pick up a comic every now and then. I read the original story in which Bane "broke" the bat and I expected a lot out of this movie, but thought it was horrible.

This might be over the top, but below are some of the things I disliked about the movie.. If people liked it cool, this is just my (not so humble) opinion:

1.The beginning with the plane/blood transfusion thing didn't make any sense.
2. Bane had zero motive (apprentice of Rah, who wanted to destroy Gotham to "honour" his master, who disliked him. However, Gotham was all cleaned up and actually a nice city now, so why destroy it? Was it because he loved Talia, which was ridiculous?
3. Gotham was a great city now because of the "Dent" act. That's not what Gotham is supposed to be like. I know Nolan can do with the story whatever he wanted to, but that was dissapointing.
4. Batman was out for 7 years!! he turned into the anti Bruce Wayne. horrible.. what a way to reveal your identity also.
5. Robin. Who knew Batman's identity, because of the look in his eye.
6. Rahs Ghost coming to visit Bruce.
7. Bruce's recovery in "hell" with world's worst criminals, who were quite nice and helpfull and had TV in there.
8. The jump. like there was no way these people could climb out of a pit with all the tools they had. Then a little girl who's like 4 ft tall makes the damn jump. Bla bla it's not about physical strength this that. still ridiculous.
9. Talia
10. Bane living in the sewers with hoodlums who will follow him no matter what and can take over an entire city just by walking around with guns. lol.
11 The whole nuclear bomb thing.
12. the batplane way to stick with the realistic/dark/edgy vibe they had in the first two movies.
13. Catwoman, masterthief, utlimate seductress - corny as hell. Over the top acting. stupid suit.
14. People with big guns running up to fistfight batman. Why? just shoot him already. Same with the cops/bad guys fight in the end. They all have guns but just run up to fight eachother instead of shoot.
15. batman being in gotham all of a sudden in the end.
16. Bane wearing a mask like a painkiller thingie.. He was nothing more than a big brute with a strange voice. Mastermind? When did he come across as a mastermind? What happend to the venum. Why was he as tall as Batman and how was he able to take 10 superhard punches to the face without going KO?

end rant.
Some of your rants are ridiculous, but I'm surprised out of all of them you didn't mention once Selina Kyle's girlfriend side-kick. Stupidiest f*cking character in the movie.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:09 AM   #101
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

I actually like the Talia twist now. Bane is very much the mirror opposite of Batman. Imprisoned in the pit and never escaped, until Ra's came. Excommunicated by Ra's because he reminded him of the hell his wife was left to die. Bruce escaped from the pit. Ra's deemed Bruce as his successor. I think many are also under the impression Bane works for Talia when in fact he disobeyed her order to not kill Bats.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:21 AM   #102
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshumitsu
Haha, Nolan was planning on casting Rachel McAdams. Should've just done that instead. Good enough acting and good looking. But true enough, Maggie would look the part of a DA's assistant moreso than the other girls.
Totally agreed.

Although, I did prefer Katie Holmes acting over Maggie's by far, although like you said Maggie looked the part.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:57 PM   #103
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toizumi
I thought Rises sucked.
I like Batman and pick up a comic every now and then. I read the original story in which Bane "broke" the bat and I expected a lot out of this movie, but thought it was horrible.

This might be over the top, but below are some of the things I disliked about the movie.. If people liked it cool, this is just my (not so humble) opinion:

1.The beginning with the plane/blood transfusion thing didn't make any sense. - What is there that doesn't make sense? They wanted to fake the doctor's death.
2. Bane had zero motive (apprentice of Rah, who wanted to destroy Gotham to "honour" his master, who disliked him. However, Gotham was all cleaned up and actually a nice city now, so why destroy it? Was it because he loved Talia, which was ridiculous? - not sure if you watched the movie. The whole part was summed up in the pit.
3. Gotham was a great city now because of the "Dent" act. That's not what Gotham is supposed to be like. I know Nolan can do with the story whatever he wanted to, but that was dissapointing.
4. Batman was out for 7 years!! he turned into the anti Bruce Wayne. horrible.. what a way to reveal your identity also. - who did he reveal his identity to?
5. Robin. Who knew Batman's identity, because of the look in his eye. - agreed...stupid.
6. Rahs Ghost coming to visit Bruce. - so?
7. Bruce's recovery in "hell" with world's worst criminals, who were quite nice and helpfull and had TV in there. - TV was there for bruce to watch gotham burn. Couldn't u figure that one out. Those criminals are criminals judged by LOS, so there might actually be some decent people.
8. The jump. like there was no way these people could climb out of a pit with all the tools they had. Then a little girl who's like 4 ft tall makes the damn jump. Bla bla it's not about physical strength this that. still ridiculous. - symbolism...learn it.
9. Talia - her death sucked...her being the boss sucked.
10. Bane living in the sewers with hoodlums who will follow him no matter what and can take over an entire city just by walking around with guns. lol. - LOS
11 The whole nuclear bomb thing. - eh.
12. the batplane way to stick with the realistic/dark/edgy vibe they had in the first two movies. - eh.
13. Catwoman, masterthief, utlimate seductress - corny as hell. Over the top acting. stupid suit. - i thought michelle pfiefer was better as well.
14. People with big guns running up to fistfight batman. Why? just shoot him already. Same with the cops/bad guys fight in the end. They all have guns but just run up to fight eachother instead of shoot.
15. batman being in gotham all of a sudden in the end. - who did you want there? superman?
16. Bane wearing a mask like a painkiller thingie.. He was nothing more than a big brute with a strange voice. Mastermind? When did he come across as a mastermind? What happend to the venum. Why was he as tall as Batman and how was he able to take 10 superhard punches to the face without going KO? - this movie never really followed the comics to a dime.

end rant.


you have some really ridiculous rants. some are valid. Its almost the same as saying how did tom hagan become the consigliere...MAJOR PLOT HOLE

Last edited by BMOGEFan : 11-26-2012 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #104
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by D-Wade316
I think many are also under the impression Bane works for Talia when in fact he disobeyed her order to not kill Bats.
Exactly. His motivations are out of love / redemption but I'd say they are more co-leaders.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:00 PM   #105
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOGEFan
you have some really ridiculous rants. some are valid. Its almost the same as saying how did tom hagan become the consigliere...MAJOR PLOT HOLE

Yeah like I mention in the beginning of my post, this is my not so humble opinion and part of my comments are probably misplaced. I know the movie is more complex than I make it sound and it deserves more credit than I'm giving it.
I thought begins was great.. and TDK was based on "the killing joke" and "the long halloween", which in my opinion are two of the best comics out there. Rises, to me, felt like just another action movie. Mission Impossible 3/Avengers or whatever. The movie had the seductive but deadly female ally, the big brute bad guy, who's working for a surprise villian, the hero who sacrifices himself but turns out to be fine in the end, even the young cop who helps out is in there.
Imo pretty cliche. Thing is, a lot of people loved the movie, so I guess that opinions differ, which is fine.. Maybe I need to give the movie a second try. I just know that I left the theatre very dissapointed and a lot of people felt the same. Ohters loved it though and it had great reviews.
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