The Last of Us is the best game ever made

[nightlight]

Which characters? Zelda was a damsel in distress. Nothing earth shattering there. What sets it apart from a link to the past? One is a shift fomr light to dark and the other is a leap in time. Adventure? It's formulaic Zelda collect stuff, get stronger, collect more stuff, fight Gannon.

It's not fun when people attack you for having your own opinion is it?

My point is -- relax. Stop being so abrasive towards anyone with a different opinion than your own. There's no correct answer, and it doesn't make shit of a difference if metacritic falls in line with your own personal taste in gaming.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

But all of that feeds into an earlier point that I made about reviews; newer games are going to be reviewed more because there are so many more video game publications, websites, etc.

Think about where PC gaming (and really, gaming as a whole) was when DOOM was released. The majority of pre-DOOM great games were either Nintendo products or arcade style games, DOOM was something entirely different. From Wikipedia,

Doom was widely praised in the gaming press and is broadly considered to be one of the most important and influential titles in gaming history.

THAT is why it's a great game. Modern FPS games owe their existence to DOOM and a handful of other early shooters that broke ground for them. DOOM (along with DOOM II) is one of my all-time favourite games, but that's not why I think that it's great. It's great because it defined the FPS genre, drew critical acclaim, revolutionized online gaming, and continues to be a relevant part of gaming today. You guys are posting Last of Us sales that totaled what, 8-9 million between the base game and the remastered edition? That's in a modern era where everyone has a gaming system and everyone is being drawn into game releases. DOOM was played by 15-20 million people within two years of release; it was the birth of mainstream PC gaming.

That's why DOOM topping 4 lists, or whatever the number was, is irrelevant to its greatness.

Every game that I listed in my primary list, with the possible exception of Majora's Mask (which is a fringe top-10 title) was either genre or gaming defining:

Ocarina of Time
Diablo (though I prefer 2/3 to the original)
Half-Life (preferred the sequel, either could slot in here)
Chrono Trigger
Link to the Past
DOOM (sequel was just as good, if not better)
Super Mario 64
FFVII
Majora's Mask
Super Metroid

Ocarina brought graphics, storytelling, gameplay, an immersive 3D world, a near flawless combat system, etc.

Diablo was a prototypical dungeon crawler, influenced the development of future action RPGs, could be counted as an early MMO with its multiplayer component, and spawned countless Diablo imitations and clones in the same way that DOOM influenced FPS games.

Half-Life was the best post-DOOM FPS (at least partially because it brought a significant degree of originality) and brought storytelling, an immersive and detailed environment, a complex and interactive gaming experience, and was also the starting point for two of the best multiplayer FPS games ever in CS and TF2.

Every game that I listed had a similar type of effect as those listed above, though the scope differs from game to game. They're not great games because I like them, they're great games because they're pinnacles of the gaming world and just happened to be exceptional games in their own right. Preference has nothing to do with the games that I named, they're there for what they brought to the table in the immediate and distant gaming world, and their flawless execution of it.

[West-Side]

But all of that feeds into an earlier point that I made about reviews; newer games are going to be reviewed more because there are so many more video game publications, websites, etc.

Think about where PC gaming (and really, gaming as a whole) was when DOOM was released. The majority of pre-DOOM great games were either Nintendo products or arcade style games, DOOM was something entirely different. From Wikipedia,


THAT is why it's a great game. Modern FPS games owe their existence to DOOM and a handful of other early shooters that broke ground for them. DOOM (along with DOOM II) is one of my all-time favourite games, but that's not why I think that it's great. It's great because it defined the FPS genre, drew critical acclaim, revolutionized online gaming, and continues to be a relevant part of gaming today. You guys are posting Last of Us sales that totaled what, 8-9 million between the base game and the remastered edition? That's in a modern era where everyone has a gaming system and everyone is being drawn into game releases. DOOM was played by 15-20 million people within two years of release; it was the birth of mainstream PC gaming.

That's why DOOM topping 4 lists, or whatever the number was, is irrelevant to its greatness.

Every game that I listed in my primary list, with the possible exception of Majora's Mask (which is a fringe top-10 title) was either genre or gaming defining:



Ocarina brought graphics, storytelling, gameplay, an immersive 3D world, a near flawless combat system, etc.

Diablo was a prototypical dungeon crawler, influenced the development of future action RPGs, could be counted as an early MMO with its multiplayer component, and spawned countless Diablo imitations and clones in the same way that DOOM influenced FPS games.

Half-Life was the best post-DOOM FPS (at least partially because it brought a significant degree of originality) and brought storytelling, an immersive and detailed environment, a complex and interactive gaming experience, and was also the starting point for two of the best multiplayer FPS games ever in CS and TF2.

Every game that I listed had a similar type of effect as those listed above, though the scope differs from game to game. They're not great games because I like them, they're great games because they're pinnacles of the gaming world and just happened to be exceptional games in their own right. Preference has nothing to do with the games that I named, they're there for what they brought to the table in the immediate and distant gaming world, and their flawless execution of it.

So is Julius Erving better than Michael Jordan because he was considered a pioneer?

I think maybe you ought to stop mentioning why those games you mentioned are great and start realizing why so many people consider TLOU a great game.

Have you honestly even played it?

Yet, I have no case.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Every game that I listed had a similar type of effect as those listed above, though the scope differs from game to game. They're not great games because I like them, they're great games because they're pinnacles of the gaming world and just happened to be exceptional games in their own right. Preference has nothing to do with the games that I named, they're there for what they brought to the table in the immediate and distant gaming world, and their flawless execution of it.

That should make it more than clear that games aren't being considered just because they're pioneers. They all remain flawless or near flawless titles today despite their age.

I have played Last of Us, though I didn't finish it. Didn't do anything special for me. I think that I mentioned earlier though, liking a game has jack shit to do with ranking with it as far as greatness. I didn't like Oblivion or Street Fighter, Civilization has fallen out of my personal favour, SC has gotten boring (just realized that I forgot to mention this in my list), etc. but I still acknowledge them as great games for what they did and what they are.

You're citing one list from a website/magazine that focuses primarily on movie reviews. Is it any surprise that they're picking a modern, plot-centric title? They have Skyrim over Oblivion and Morrowind, Call of Duty over DOOM, Tomb Raider over Majora's Mask, Diablo II without mention of the original, Chrono Trigger all the way down at 76...I could poke holes in their credibility all day.

If all you're going to post is lists/reviews, let's end this here. We're bringing fundamentally different perspectives on greatness to the table and it looks like there's no way that either of us will break ground on the other's view.

[West-Side]

That should make it more than clear that games aren't being considered just because they're pioneers. They all remain flawless or near flawless titles today despite their age.

I have played Last of Us, though I didn't finish it. Didn't do anything special for me. I think that I mentioned earlier though, liking a game has jack shit to do with ranking with it as far as greatness. I didn't like Oblivion or Street Fighter, Civilization has fallen out of my personal favour, SC has gotten boring (just realized that I forgot to mention this in my list), etc. but I still acknowledge them as great games for what they did and what they are.

You're citing one list from a website/magazine that focuses primarily on movie reviews. Is it any surprise that they're picking a modern, plot-centric title? They have Skyrim over Oblivion and Morrowind, Call of Duty over DOOM, Tomb Raider over Majora's Mask, Diablo II without mention of the original, Chrono Trigger all the way down at 76...I could poke holes in their credibility all day.

If all you're going to post is lists/reviews, let's end this here. We're bringing fundamentally different perspectives on greatness to the table and it looks like there's no way that either of us will break ground on the other's view.

Okay fair enough, and close to 75% of the games you listed didn't do anything for me. None of them were special to me, which is why so many of them I bought but never finished.

You just act like your criteria is somehow fundamentally correct when evaluating games, and mine isn't.

If you really care, I could write a detailed review on why I believe TLOU is very much a candidate but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.

[nightprowler10]

You just act like your criteria is somehow fundamentally correct when evaluating games, and mine isn't.

If you really care, I could write a detailed review on why I believe TLOU is very much a candidate but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.

Thing is though we haven't seen your criteria, just lists on top of lists.

I don't mean to speak for others, but I would like to see why you think it's the GOAT. That's what this discussion always should've been.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Impact, game quality, and originality seem like solid criteria to me, but I digress. Agree to disagree looks like all we've got.

[West-Side]

Ranks TLOU 16th best of all-time

GamesRadar ranks it 14th best

The point I'm making is simple: it is consistently mentions among the top 20 or so best games of all time. Some lists have it in the top 10, some have in the top 5.

It's funny, I also see similarities between their lists and yours. A lot of the games you consider GOAT, are also on these same lists. Yet you think TLOU doesn't deserve to be considered with them.

[Kungfro]

Last of Us was a good game, and definitely one of the better games to come out of 2013, but I don't know about best game ever made. That's pretty high praise for a game that I don't think will have any real lasting impact on the industry.

[Heavincent]

Thing is though we haven't seen your criteria, just lists on top of lists.

I don't mean to speak for others, but I would like to see why you think it's the GOAT. That's what this discussion always should've been.

For me, the video in the OP perfectly summarizes why it's such a great game. I'll post the link again because I don't think anyone actually watched it and just focused on the list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzVwbs-lsg He puts it more elegantly than I ever could.

[West-Side]

Impact, game quality, and originality seem like solid criteria to me, but I digress. Agree to disagree looks like all we've got.

So, we'll ignore graphics, characterization, narrative, dialogue, voice acting, music, detail; essentially the things The Last Of Us thrives at, right?

At a time when blockbuster action games are sinking into a mire of desperate overproduction, shallow gameplay and broken narrative logic, The Last of Us is a deeply impressive demonstration of how it can and should be done.

That's impact. Their niche is telling a story through effective narrative and enriching dialogue. They do so by focusing on the characters and building a mature theme, and as the game progresses so does the relationship between the two characters. The people that have a problem with TLOU simply don't realize its intent, or aren't interested in playing those sort of games. There are many people who do though, and that's where we continually disagree with each other.

I'll break it down for you.

Graphics: By most eyes, it is the best looking game on the PS3.

Characterization: The flowering of Joel's unwilling guardianship into fatherly affection runs a predictable course and is initially slow to engage. But writer and creative director Neil Druckmann builds both characters, Joel especially, with real patience and skill, using gradually layered detail and dropped hints, never forcing it.

Narrative: The challenge offered by puzzles or obstacles is only very mild, but that's not the point. These sections offer a chance to drink in the game's striking sights and its potent atmosphere of peaceful desolation - which is given ample room to breathe by the extremely sparing use of music.

Dialogue: The seasons change and the pair have to fight off bandits and scrape together what they can from their surroundings to survive, often travelling on foot, sometimes on horseback. It's the classic journey into the west, the pioneer's tale - but turned on its head, because this anti-Western isn't about the birth of a nation. It's about the death of one. This melancholy twist is just one of several things that lifts The Last of Us far above its clich

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Does game quality not encompass all of that? It's obviously going to be relative based on the era in question but I thought it was pretty clear that game quality evaluates the actual quality of the game...

[West-Side]

Does game quality not encompass all of that? It's obviously going to be relative based on the era in question but I thought it was pretty clear that game quality evaluates the actual quality of the game...

What does BioShock do that TLOU doesn't?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Last of Us was a good game, and definitely one of the better games to come out of 2013, but I don't know about best game ever made. That's pretty high praise for a game that I don't think will have any real lasting impact on the industry.

This is where I'm at. If it had come out in the mid-2000s or earlier, possibly a different story, but I'm not sure what it really adds now.

What does BioShock do that TLOU doesn't?

BioShock was more creative in its story/world. I thought that there was more meat to its story and underlying themes, more depth to its dialogue, concept of morality was an interesting one. The combat system was more diverse, complex, and creative with the plasmids. It was spectacular as far as atmosphere, especially for how immersive it was, not a game that I enjoyed playing late at night. Big Daddies/Little Sisters were fantastic characters and a big part of what made BioShock so memorable, even to more casual fans. It was also a multi-platform game, something that makes development and release significantly more difficult. I remember being wowed by the graphics when I first played it in a way that newer games just don't accomplish because we've become so accustomed to it.

What's more, it accomplished all of this back in 2007. BioShock was a greater achievement in 2007 than Last of Us was in 2013.

[outbreak]

DING DING DING DING!!!

He will say this then go back to using aggregate sources to claim hd can prove its the best game ever. Still hasn't realised people arent having a go at him so much for the games he chose on their own but the way he presented them, if you list best games of all time you can't exclude genres her because you don't like them. Then the list is your favorite games which is fine but that's a different list.