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Old 02-07-2012, 01:10 PM   #61
millwad
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Trying to lie now and cover up your obvious stupidity.

Priceless.


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"Last edited by 32Dayz : Today at 01:05 PM."

Brian, you fail at life..
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:19 PM   #62
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by millwad
Kuniva, he got outplayed, only idiots claims that he crushed Shaq but he clearly outplayed Shaq. And only idiots would claim that the series was a wash.

No, I agree with you. Shaq was definitely outplayed by Hakeem. It's just the bold that is a facepalm (anyone spouting that nonsense clearly hasn't watched the series).
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:21 PM   #63
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
No, I agree with you. Shaq was definitely outplayed by Hakeem. It's just the bold that is a facepalm (anyone spouting that nonsense clearly hasn't watched the series).

Yeah, Shaq should get more credit for his performance in '95 vs Hakeem, he was scary good and it's no shame to get outplayed by Hakeem. And of course people who claim something like Shaq getting killed or anything like that are obviously idiots.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:30 PM   #64
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by 32Dayz
It's a myth pushed hard by Hakeem fans and Shaq haters.

Truth is Shaq was easily on par or equal to Hakeem in 95 and honestly should have won MVP in the RS.

I dont mind saying Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the Finals but it was truly the case where he only "slightly outplayed him".

Saying it was a wash wouldn't be incorrect either its that close.

No.. seriously, no.

I'm a huge Shaq fan, but to claim he outplayed Olajuwon in the 96 Finals isn't true at all. O'Neal himself claimed that he was outplayed by Hakeem and you should acknowledge that. It wasn't close, but it wasn't far either. Still, Hakeem won that match up.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:33 PM   #65
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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No.. seriously, no.

I'm a huge Shaq fan, but to claim he outplayed Olajuwon in the 96 Finals isn't true at all. O'Neal himself claimed that he was outplayed by Hakeem and you should acknowledge that. It wasn't close, but it wasn't far either. Still, Hakeem won that match up.

Actually it was extremely close.

Young Shaq was humble and both he and Hakeem were represented by the same agent.
Giving Hakeem props does not change the fact that over the entire series they practically played eachother to a wash.
They both had a mutual respect for eachother and had Shaq won I am sure Hakeem would have praised Oneal in a similar fashion.

I also give a small edge to Hakeem in that series but a very small one.

I disagree with you if you think it wasn't quite close.

Hakeem did outplay Oneal but by a very small practically insignificant margin.

That series was won by the roleplayers not because of any edge Hakeem had against Shaq.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:05 PM   #66
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Actually it was extremely close.

Young Shaq was humble and both he and Hakeem were represented by the same agent.
Giving Hakeem props does not change the fact that over the entire series they practically played eachother to a wash.
They both had a mutual respect for eachother and had Shaq won I am sure Hakeem would have praised Oneal in a similar fashion.

I also give a small edge to Hakeem in that series but a very small one.

I disagree with you if you think it wasn't quite close.

Hakeem did outplay Oneal but by a very small practically insignificant margin.

That series was won by the roleplayers not because of any edge Hakeem had against Shaq.

Haha, wow..

Shaq is one of the least humble players ever and even to this day he still says that Hakeem outplayed him and that quote was from 2000 and from his peak.

You try to hard, no one agrees with you. Get a life, lonely prick. Nothing about that series was extremely close, Hakeem outplayed him without no doubt in 2 of the games..
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #67
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by 32Dayz
Hakeem at best outplayed Shaq by the smallest of margins in that series, it was basically a wash.
You and that Wilt fangirl are the only 2 people on this planet who believe in that nonsense.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:27 PM   #68
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
In what world is averaging 28/12/6/2 on 56% shooting getting "severely outplayed"? Hakeem "owning" Shaq in the '95 Finals is one of the biggest myths in NBA history.
In the world in which people actually watch the games instead of forming their opinions based on meaningless numbers.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:34 PM   #69
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by MooseJuiceBowen
gotta love ish just a bunch of dumb kids who look at stats all day

Kuniva is actually a good poster, I think he got misunderstood. Shaq obviously didn't get killed like Robinson in the series which is probably what Kuniva meant, I know Kuniva thinks that Shaq got outplayed.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #70
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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I just don't see how Shaq gets all these praises when he wouldn't play defense unless his team was feeding him the ball. That's low life shit. Ill bet Kareem and bakeries and Duncan never did that

Shaq was consistently in DPOY voting in the 00's and was an even better defender in the 90's.

He never "didn't play defense" you stupid Troll.

Duncan wasn't a better defender then Shaq although he may have put in slightly more effort in the regular season on that end giving the illusion that he was.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #71
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by Kovach
In the world in which people actually watch the games instead of forming their opinions based on meaningless numbers.

So in a fantasy one? Gotcha.

lol at thinking those are meaningless numbers.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:58 PM   #72
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by MooseJuiceBowen
gotta love ish just a bunch of dumb kids who look at stats all day

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250881

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Old 02-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #73
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by Kovach
In the world in which people actually watch the games instead of forming their opinions based on meaningless numbers.



It's the first Finals I fully remember watching. Hakeem embarrassed him. It's easy to compare that to Robinson in the WCF's and to say that Shaq came out looking better, but it has nothing to do with reality. Hakeem played better against Robinson. And his team wasn't shockingly better against Orlando (a better team than San Antonio). There's a reason San Antonio pushed it to 6 with Hakeem playing the way he did. Robinson had much more of an impact on the game than Shaq did.



And that is what I mean when I call Shaq a stat-padder. His numbers are always there and they often reflect his impact. But his impact never goes beyond the numbers. Shaq is a stats guy.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:30 PM   #74
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
It's the first Finals I fully remember watching. Hakeem embarrassed him. It's easy to compare that to Robinson in the WCF's and to say that Shaq came out looking better, but it has nothing to do with reality. Hakeem played better against Robinson. And his team wasn't shockingly better against Orlando (a better team than San Antonio). There's a reason San Antonio pushed it to 6 with Hakeem playing the way he did. Robinson had much more of an impact on the game than Shaq did.


And that is what I mean when I call Shaq a stat-padder. His numbers are always there and they often reflect his impact. But his impact never goes beyond the numbers. Shaq is a stats guy.

What a retard.

Shaq's impact always went far beyond the stat sheet on both ends of the floor.

Shaq embarrassed Hakeem holding him to 48% shooting on single coverage.
Shaq was the one getting doubled and tripled and still scored on similar volume while shooting almost 60% from the field.

Not to mention outrebouning him, out assisting him, out blocking him.

Leading in all categories basically.

Not saying Hakeem didnt end up having the better series but it was basically a wash.

Last edited by 32Dayz : 02-07-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:49 PM   #75
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Default Re: In The Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Debate, The Dream Remains Unbeatable

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Originally Posted by millwad
In Hakeem's case it wasn't just the blocks, it was also the steals. Hakeem is 8 all time in steals which is crazy for a center, Shaq's not even top 250. And the difference in pace is not translating from Hakeem's to Shaq's defensive numbers.

And if we don't care about the stats, Hakeem is a two time DPOY, Shaq was never close to getting any DPOYS. Hakeem was on the first all-defensive team 5 times, Shaq was never on any first teams. Hakeem was on 4 all-defensive 2nd teams and Shaq was on 3 all-defensive 2nd teams and it should be mentioned that Hakeem faced tougher competition for them nominations.

If we even overlook the stats, Shaq just wasn't close being the defender Hakeem was.




Hakeem was extremely clutch for being a center. Not just in the end of the games, overall he was really clutch when games were about to be decided.

In his prime ('93-'95), he faced elimination 10 times and his record was 9-1 in those games (and the game he lost was in overtime after his team got screwed). This is what he did in those games:

31/21/7/3/3
23/17/9/3/2
37/17/5/3
25/10/7/3
40/8/3
33/10/4
31/16/3
30/8/10/5
29/11/4

Those are some unreal performances when you're under extreme pressure.




Don't agree about the Rockets being more deep then the Lakers, and certainly not ALOT deeper and my opinion and many others opinion is that the Lakers faced weaker competition overall during their title years, and especially when it came to centers. And while winning Hakeem faced way tougher competition at the center position, going through Ewing, Robinson and Shaq during his back to backs while outplaying them all is a really impressive accomplishment.


Anyway, I have no problem with anyone taking Shaq over Hakeem and I don't have any problem with anyone taking Hakeem over Shaq, I am in the middle currently and as for now I can't decide. The only reason why I replied to alot of stuff in this thread is because 32gayz (Brian) really has no knowledge what so ever.. The guy thinks he is some kind of Shaq expert but still he makes up stuff about Shaq constantly.
Hakeem was the better defender as I said. And the steals as well (only D-Rob and maybe Ben Wallace amongst centers compare). I just felt is was fair to mention pace and that given most possessions don't end with blocks and steals the fact that Shaq was impossible to move in the post made him effective. Still the fact that Hakeem got DPoY's versus Robinson, Mutombo, Ewing, Payton, Jordan and Pippen, whereas Shaq didn't versus Alonzo(until kidney ailments), post peak Dikembe Mutombo, and eventually Ben Wallace, is somewhat damning. The 2001 award seems particularly up for the taking in retrospect. As I said before Shaq's defense stands out as an area he could have done more.

Hakeem certainly performed well in a lot of elimination games (in his title years), but to be fair Shaq didn't really get that chance at his title winning peak because the Lakers were destroying teams.

Backup C: Thorpe
PF: Thorpe, Herrera, Bullard
SF: Horry, Ellie, Bullard
SG: Maxwell, Ellie
PG: Smith, Cassell, Brooks

No elite players sure, but good shooting and defense. Maybe the Lakers 1st title team comes close but I don't love Ron Harper and Brian Shaw at their ages playing as many minutes as they did.

Olajuwon certainly faced superior center competition by a very large margin. Outplaying his rivals in those title years is highly impressive, though given the small sample size I don't emphasize it as much as others do when ranking players. I also don't love that it's used to put D-Rob down.

Anyways, fair play to you, you make a reasoned case.
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