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Old 09-23-2006, 07:28 PM   #46
lakers-city
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
The idea that in a league where Steve Nash won the last two MVPs Larry Bird would somehow be unable to fucntion at his prime level due to athletic ability is crazy. Hes Larry Bird. A basically flawless offensive player who ate at one time or another everyone to guard him from small speedy types, to athletic swingmen, to long athletic bigmen, to heavy power forwards. If Michael Cooper, Dennis rodman Larry Nance(who might have no athletic equal his size right now. If he does its Stro Swift), and so on couldntstop him whats he gonna see so amazing now?

I remember the game vs the Blazers where he gave them like 50/14/12 with a few steals and a block and the game winner while being guarded by a combo of Drexler, Kersey, and Cliff Robinson. Two dunk contest finalists and another long athletic good defender. And this as his final season. He had a bad back and bad knees. Athletic ability didnt make Larry Bird. Though he was more athletic than given credit for. I remember when I posted the Bird video I made people being shocked he could do 180 dunks in traffic as if they thought he was glued to the floor.

Larry Bird had as many post moves as anyone currently does. Was as good a midrange shooter as anyone currently is. Had 3 point range though he knew it wasnt the best shot to take. Would have no equal as a passer in the league outside a few pointguards(Guys like Nash, Kidd, and Tj Ford). Hes probably gonna average 8-10 rebounds up to 11 depending on the team hes on.

And hes not gonna just get destroyed on D. If he could stay on the floor vs the Badboy Pistons with Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Laimbeer, Microwave, Adrian Dantley on the team or vs the 76ers with Moses Malone, Barkley, Doctor J, Andrew toney, and Mo Cheeks? Or the Bucks with Moncrief, Pressey, Ricky Pierce, and Cummings? Or the Lakers with Magic, KAreem, Scott, Worthy, Coop, and AC? Blazers with Drexler, Kersey, Porter, Kiki, and so on? Kiki, Issel, Alex English, and David Thompson(briefly)?

Teams were stacked in his day. And he still managed to put in 35-40 minutes a night and do waaaaay more damage vs whoever guarded him than they did to him. Even if he needs to be hidden on D(and he really doesnt) it doesnt stop anyone else from playing today. Larry Bird as he was in his prime has no equal today. Tim Duncan is closest because hes a better defender but nobody who can approach him as a total offensive player(not just scorer) is also ahead of him enough on D to really be more effective than him.

Not like he was out there with his head up his ass on D. He was playing great team D by knowing where to be and when. Hes not gonna throw your shot but he will get his hand where you want to release it before you get it there. He was great off the ball. Stripping people in the post. Making you alter a shot. Knowing where you wanted to go. And he often made the big defensive play. Won a number of games with a key steal or even block. You could argue his greatest play was defensive.

Larry Bird today is gonna do the same things he did to the athletic and non athletic people he did 20 years ago. Score in the post if youre smaller. Go around you if youre bigger. Beat you up off the ball. Make you pay if you go under the screen by making his jumpers. Pick you apart with passing if you double. Talk a lot of ****. And then back it up.

Larry Bird is not gonna look any worse because of more athletic defenders. He might look even better. I pity Shawn Marion the day he has to guard Larry Bird one on one.

oustanding post this youngsters who never saw larry play saying that bird wouldnt be effective in a league where tony parker shoots 55% are absolutely laughable.

Last edited by lakers-city : 09-23-2006 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:30 PM   #47
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Great post Blaze.

Some of these people would have you believe that the NBA in Bird's era sucked and today is some kind of league that's miles above any era in NBA history.

It's absurd.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:34 PM   #48
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There is no question whatsoever that bird would be better than boris diaw. He would be a top 3 at worst offensive player in the nba. I dont really see any argument with that but he was nowhere near as athletic as diaw is.

He's not more athletic than Boris Diaw. I think we must be talking about different Larry Birds.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:38 PM   #49
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the elite of the elite in NBA history would dominate in any era, MJ would have been unstopable and probably average like 40 ppg in lots of seasons in the 60s, magic would have been the best PG in the 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's, shaq would've been an unstopable force in any era, kareem would have been arguably the greatest center of alltime in any era, larry bird ranks in this category as well.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:40 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Loki
Sure he would. The only comp would be Lebron, but Bird would put up 27/10/7 to Lebron's 31/7/6 and he also has huge edges in mental toughness, clutch play, and even defense.

Huge is a gross overstatement. I'd say he's got a slight edge in the 3 categories.

LeBron's no slouch in the clutch. He had the best crunch time numbers in the league last season. As far as his mental toughness goes, I think his late game play, postseason play and how he's handled all the hype surrounding him since '03 is a testament to it. Kid's tough.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:52 PM   #51
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blaze said it all.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:57 PM   #52
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Slight edge in clutch play? If you could have either Lebron or Bird open from 18 feet down 1 with a second to go game 7 of the finals on the road.....you would only barely want to have Bird? I dont think id even begin to consider taking Lebron to make that shot. And I like Lebron.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:58 PM   #53
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Huge is a gross overstatement.


Bird's teams made the playoffs every year of his career, and won a playoff series every year of his career except for one, in 89/90. Lebron has made the playoffs once in three seasons. So it's probably not gross overstatement. You could say that it's not fair to compare the samples, but it's not really an overstatement.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:59 PM   #54
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Please tell me you idiots bashing Bird are 15?
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
Huge is a gross overstatement. I'd say he's got a slight edge in the 3 categories.

LeBron's no slouch in the clutch. He had the best crunch time numbers in the league last season. As far as his mental toughness goes, I think his late game play, postseason play and how he's handled all the hype surrounding him since '03 is a testament to it. Kid's tough.

If he's so clutch, explain to me how he chokes away a 3-2 lead in the playoffs with Game 6 at home? And where he was during Game 1 and the first half of Game 2?
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:04 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
Bird's teams made the playoffs every year of his career, and won a playoff series every year of his career except for one, in 89/90. Lebron has made the playoffs once in three seasons. So it's probably not gross overstatement. You could say that it's not fair to compare the samples, but it's not really an overstatement.
Im not gonna come close to making the argument that Lebron was more clutch or as clutch as bird because anyone who saw bird would never make that argument but thats a horrible comparison. When bird was the same age lebron was when he got to the nba he couldnt make it in College much less the nba. Lebron is 21 now. Bird was 24 when he got to the nba. Horrible comparison
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:08 PM   #57
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Bird's teams made the playoffs every year of his career, and won a playoff series every year of his career except for one, in 89/90. Lebron has made the playoffs once in three seasons. So it's probably not gross overstatement. You could say that it's not fair to compare the samples, but it's not really an overstatement.


I didn't say that he wasn't more clutch. But to claim that he it's close isn't fair to what Bird did. It's like saying Greg Oden is better then Kareem because he might be.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:10 PM   #58
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LeBron got a combined total of 16 points from the other four starters in game seven. His teammates choked/didn't play well. No one person can beat a team like the Pistons without some help. 16 points qualifies as a whole lot of nothing.

LeBron put up 32/5/11 in game six. The blame needs to be handed out to the guards in that game who scored a combined six points in the game. Cavs lost in spite of LeBrons play, not because of it.

Quote:
Bird's teams made the playoffs every year of his career, and won a playoff series every year of his career except for one

Well, when you have such a great home-court advantage such as they had back then, to go along with playing amongst of the greatest front-court ever and very capable guards, it wasn't really all Bird getting it done. He had the ultimate team, very few weaknesses as a whole. LeBron doesn't have the luxury of playing with great players like Bird had, and playing behind a crowd like that.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:11 PM   #59
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Bird would kill today. Talent aside, it was his fundamentals and his desire to make teammates better that would still set him apart. All he cared about was the score at the end of the game and not about getting on ESPN.

I agree with everything KBlaze8855 said. The thing with Bird was he'd go at the defenders weakness. Michael Cooper was a great, athletic defender but skinny so Bird would post him. Houston used to throw Robert Reid and McCray on him and he'd mix it up against them. It didn't matter who you threw at him. Shot, pass, post up...

I think it was in Jayson Williams Loose Balls book (great book by the way) where, as a rookie, he was anxious to guard Bird. He thought that he would shut him down. He got out there and Bird went off on him and every basket was different.

And Bird was a better defender than people on these boards are giving him credit for. Team defense counts...it's all about stopping the other team and Bird did that both individually and in the team concept.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:12 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
If he's so clutch, explain to me how he chokes away a 3-2 lead in the playoffs with Game 6 at home? And where he was during Game 1 and the first half of Game 2?

LMAO. The guy is 21 and almost lead his team to an upset over a team that NO ONE gave them a chance against.

I guess that fact is meaningless to a guy such as yourself.
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