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Old 09-23-2006, 08:14 PM   #61
lakers-city
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Originally Posted by Carbine


Well, when you have such a great home-court advantage such as they had back then, to go along with playing amongst of the greatest front-court ever and very capable guards, it wasn't really all Bird getting it done. He had the ultimate team, very few weaknesses as a whole. LeBron doesn't have the luxury of playing with great players like Bird had, and playing behind a crowd like that.

lebron didnt have to face magic and his legendary lakers or isiah and his pistons or malone and his "fo fo fo" sixers, did he ? the pistons were overrated and weak this season, just look how miami toyed with them and blew them away in all of their home games.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:17 PM   #62
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Well, when you have such a great home-court advantage such as they had back then, to go along with playing amongst of the greatest front-court ever and very capable guards, it wasn't really all Bird getting it done. He had the ultimate team, very few weaknesses as a whole. LeBron doesn't have the luxury of playing with great players like Bird had, and playing behind a crowd like that.


I'm a big Lebron guy by the way. I'm just saying that there is a huge gap, as to be expected. It's not fair to say there isn't.

And a lot of Bird's home court advantage was caused by his play. The 86 Celtics were the most fun team to watch I ever saw. Bird's passing, and overall play was infectious.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:19 PM   #63
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Those Piston teams will go down as one of the best starting five in history all things considered. Like how well they complimented each other, how well they were defensivly, and they won a ring and got to another final the year after.

LeBrons' lack of help around him mutes any point being made about the comp. that Bird had to face back then, because he was going to war with very, very capable players.

Did the Celtics really have that much comp in the Eastern Conference back in the 80's except for one or two teams? Naw.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:21 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Carbine
Those Piston teams will go down as one of the best starting five in history all things considered. Like how well they complimented each other, how well they were defensivly, and they won a ring and got to another final the year after.

LeBrons' lack of help around him mutes any point being made about the comp. that Bird had to face back then, because he was going to war with very, very capable players.

Did the Celtics really have that much comp in the Eastern Conference back in the 80's? Naw.
The 6ers? The Pistons? I do know that Bird had an amazing team and Im not that big of a bird fan but yes the eastern conference had some good teams.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:23 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Carbine
Those Piston teams will go down as one of the best starting five in history all things considered. Like how well they complimented each other, how well they were defensivly, and they won a ring and got to another final the year after.

winning one ring isnt enough to be considered one of the greatest ever, and they werent great this year's playoffs, they looked weak and vulnerable, which is why miami owned them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Did the Celtics really have that much comp in the Eastern Conference back in the 80's except for one or two teams? Naw.

yes he did, much more than lebron does, bird had to go against malone/erving and the sixers and thomas/dumars/laimbeeir and the pistons, also bird was playing against magic and the showtimers in the finals most times.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:24 PM   #66
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LMAO. The guy is 21 and almost lead his team to an upset over a team that NO ONE gave them a chance against.

I guess that fact is meaningless to a guy such as yourself.

Being a particular age, and being clutch, should have very little in common.

On one hand you, or whoever, wants to go off about how clutch LeBron is, in relation to Larry Legend I might add! And on the other they hand they wanna pull out the age card when an example is borught up contrary to their point.

A clutch player would not have choked away the playoff spot his first year, would not have laid an egg in Game 1 and 2 of that series, and would not have choked away a 3-2 lead. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:26 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
Being a particular age, and being clutch, should have very little in common.

On one hand you, or whoever, wants to go off about how clutch LeBron is, in relation to Larry Legend I might add! And on the other they hand they wanna pull out the age card when an example is borught up contrary to their point.

A clutch player would not have choked away the playoff spot his first year, would not have laid an egg in Game 1 and 2 of that series, and would not have choked away a 3-2 lead. That's all I'm saying.
By the same token, a clutch player at a fairly similar age wouldnt have choked his way off of the entire team in college....
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:27 PM   #68
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It's not fair to say there isn't.

But we're talking as individual players here. Just because Bird had more success in the playoffs doesn't really matter when comparing two players individually because teams, not individuals, win series & obtain success.

It's not LeBrons fault he plays with horrible guards, and has to rely on an energy kid as the primary first post of the bench. I'm just not gonna hold that against him as far as not winning consistently his first couple years because he has no control over who he plays with.

Hate to do it, but you give LeBron the best front court in todays game to go along with capable guards and we're talking about LeBron and his championships, not Dwade and his free throw shooting contest aka the finals. You know?

It has to go both ways.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:28 PM   #69
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You're trying to compare Bron on the Cavs to Bird making the Finals with Indiana State?

Indiana State!

Or him going back home after a month at IU?

Last edited by DeuceWallaces : 09-23-2006 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:32 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Carbine
But we're talking as individual players here. Just because Bird had more success in the playoffs doesn't really matter when comparing two players individually because teams, not individuals, win series & obtain success.

It's not LeBrons fault he plays with horrible guards, and has to rely on an energy kid as the primary first post of the bench. I'm just not gonna hold that against him as far as not winning consistently his first couple years because he has no control over who he plays with.

Hate to do it, but you give LeBron the best front court in todays game to go along with capable guards and we're talking about LeBron and his championships, not Dwade and his free throw shooting contest aka the finals. You know?

It has to go both ways.

i disagree, lebron isnt clutch like wade and cant take over against a good team (he took over against the joke wizards after all) and wade didnt have some sort of legendary front court, shaq is declining as fast as he is aging.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:33 PM   #71
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The 6ers? The Pistons? I do know that Bird had an amazing team and Im not that big of a bird fan but yes the eastern conference had some good teams.

That's not what I was getting at. What I was trying to get at was did they have that much comp relative to their own talent level? Not really, until they came across the Lakers.

Again, relative to Lebrons' Cavaliers talent level to the Pistons they faced, it was a huge difference. I don't think the Celtics back in the 80's faced a circumstance were they found themselves not on the same talent level as the team they faced.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:35 PM   #72
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you do realise that the biggest reason of boston being good was larry bird ? who do you think was running the show ? mchale, parrish ?? dennis johnson ? nope, it was larry bird.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:35 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Indian guy
Huge is a gross overstatement. I'd say he's got a slight edge in the 3 categories.

LeBron's no slouch in the clutch. He had the best crunch time numbers in the league last season. As far as his mental toughness goes, I think his late game play, postseason play and how he's handled all the hype surrounding him since '03 is a testament to it. Kid's tough.

Nah man, Bird had a huge edge in clutchness and overall mental toughness. Huge. Lebron's done some nice things thus far, but he's not in the same realm. We'll see if he is in about 7-8 years.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:38 PM   #74
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Obviously, is was Birds team. However, he had the best front-court in basketball to play with, and pretty good guard play. Not to mention a great home crowd and a very good coach.

he had everything going for him as far as the team went, while LeBron at this point has had the misfortune of relying on Eric Snow, Damon Jones, etc to get the job done from the guard position.

You have to base it on the circumstances given. Each player is defined by a case by case, at least to me. You have to account for everything.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:40 PM   #75
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"i disagree, lebron isnt clutch like wade and cant take over against a good team (he took over against the joke wizards after all)"

He took over games vs the Pistons too. And hes only been in 2 playoff series. One he averaged 36/8/6 and hit 2 game winners and in the other he led his team to a game 7 vs a 64 win team that I literally dont remember one person picking them to win 2 games against. Really a lot of ISH had the wizards beating them too. Lebron played as well in the playoffs as anyone could expect.
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