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Old 10-16-2012, 06:00 PM   #31
jlip
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Default Re: Rank ISH's top 15 NBA Players of All-Time in offense, defense, and rebounding

I actually struggled between Oscar and MJ with rebounding and gave MJ the slight edge. IMO rebounding is the most difficult stat to compare across eras. While I do admit that pace plays a major role in rebounding totals I also know that pace is not the end all be all. On the contrary it seems as if rb% stats favor eras when there were fewer rebounds. It's easier to grab 50% of 2, because that's just 1. But grabbing 50% of 20 requires you to get 10. (If that makes sense.)

I looked at Oscar's and MJ's per 36 minute rpg averages, and they were separated by .5 rpg with Oscar being ahead. IMO, and this is by no means scientific whatsoever, I feel that with the gap between them being so close, the difference in pace could actually account for that. If they were separated by say 2 or 3 rpg then I would not have considered pace and total rebounds available to be able to compensate for the difference.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: Rank ISH's top 15 NBA Players of All-Time in offense, defense, and rebounding

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
- Oscar Robertson and Moses Malone have comparable total career points but Robertson had 5ppg more than Moses and also added 8apg extra. I can't see how Malone could be regarded as on a par with the Big O offensively. When you factor in Oscar Robertson's outstanding playmaking skills, you really ought to have him in the top 2 or 3.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=272312
Moses was able to outplay Kareem, especially at the offensive end and that tells a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
- In fact, I can't think of a better offensive player than him; he could give you 30ppg or he could give you 10apg... often both. He's the only player who did that consistently throughout his career.
It's not all about statlines. For instance;
Before his first injury, Archibald was the league's ppg and apg leader. His previous season was 28/9. After injury-season, he was a 25/7 guy for 2 seasons. Yet that doesn't give him a edge over Magic Johnson for being a better offensive player.

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Originally Posted by WillC
- Why is Jordan ranked higher than Oscar Robertson for rebounding?
When you look at Magic's and Big O's career numbers, you see when they started to get better -especially offensively(low post scoring ect.)- their rpg number were dropped a little bit. Jordan was a 6 rpg guy for his entire career and 7 rpg in his prime, in a relatively low-paced era.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: Rank ISH's top 15 NBA Players of All-Time in offense, defense, and rebounding

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Originally Posted by jlip
On the contrary it seems as if rb% stats favor eras when there were fewer rebounds. It's easier to grab 50% of 2, because that's just 1. But grabbing 50% of 20 requires you to get 10. (If that makes sense.)

I get what you're saying, though I'm not sure I completely agree with the analogy. But, it did raise some interesting questions in my mind - perhaps some by chance - that somewhat seek to answer what it means to be a great rebounder.

As total rebounds decrease, does the skill-set needed to be a great rebounder change? In my mind it would seem as though more total rebounds would start to favor stamina and determination as player attributes more so than strength and skill.

What is the more important stat, total rebounds, or total rebounds over the average replacement? Phrased differently, with a more concrete representation - Would a 7.5 TRB% Point Guard improve his teams rebounding more than a 13.5 TRB% Center, given that the average TRB% for Centers is 15% and the average for Point Guards is 6%?

Finally, as total rebounding opportunities decrease, does the possibility of having statistical outliers - like Rodman - increase? I can certainly see the argument that it does.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:20 PM   #34
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Default Re: Rank ISH's top 15 NBA Players of All-Time in offense, defense, and rebounding

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