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Old 10-04-2008, 09:34 PM   #1
CakeorDeath
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Default Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

It was fun as usual. Some things of note:

D-Will just gets it. He really has taken over this team, this city, the whole state of Utah. Some little kid was getting his picture taken with Jazz players, most would just stand next to the kid for a second; Deron picks him up, puts the kid on his shoulders, then plays with him a bit. After the game, the players threw souvenir mini balls to the crowd. After they were done, they all went back to the locker room. Deron comes out a few minutes later and hucks his jersey and both shoes into the crowd. Booze soon followed and did the same.

CJ Miles is as terrible as he ever was. For the game: 0-9 FG, 2-4 FT, 6 fouls, 3 turnovers. He did have a steal, though.

I was really impressed with Koufos. The guy hit jumpers from everywhere (including a triple), ran the floor really hard, and played solid defense. Would not be surprised at all to see him log significant minutes behind Okur this year. We might finally see the end of regular minutes for Collins. I was very skeptical of him following the RMR, but the kid impressed today.

Both Millsap and Brewer seemed to have worked hard on their footwork and jumpshooting. Both played very, very well. They have successfully reached the point where they are confortable letting the game come to them rather than trying to force stuff. I wonder if they could talk to CJ?

Brevin Knight will provide veteran leadership and will be a good locker room guy and an insurance policy if D-Will misses a game or two, but I honestly don't think he will beat Price out for minutes. Based on the playing time given in this scrimmage, Price has effectively cemented himself as the primary backup to Williams. And tonight certainly didn't hurt Ronnie either, he played very well and seems to have improved his range.

Matt Harpring was there but did not play.

Korver hit about four shots in a row at one point, but was other wise fiarly quiet.

That's all I can think of right now. If you want to know about anything/anyone, just ask.
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Old 10-04-2008, 09:54 PM   #2
Xiao Yao You
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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CJ Miles is as terrible as he ever was.

He's hardly terrible.

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Would not be surprised at all to see him log significant minutes behind Okur this year. We might finally see the end of regular minutes for Collins.

Not to familiar with Sloan I take it?

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I honestly don't think he will beat Price out for minutes. Based on the playing time given in this scrimmage, Price has effectively cemented himself as the primary backup to Williams.

Knowing Sloan you're probably right but Brevin should eventually take over when he gets a handle on the offense.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Knowing Sloan you're probably right but Brevin should eventually take over when he gets a handle on the offense.

I doubt it. He's old and in a 1-year contract with the Jazz. He's almost certainly going to be last on the list unless Price screws it up.
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Old 10-05-2008, 10:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

Price is on a one year contract too. They need a vet and Brevin is a perfect fit.
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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He's hardly terrible

Terrible might be too harsh a word. How about immature, lazy, selfish, inconsistent, and just plain not worth a roster spot?

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Not to familiar with Sloan I take it?

Very familiar with him, and I can actually see that the man has evolved his coaching philosophy during the post Stockton/Malone years He rewards players who work hard and who try to do the things that the coaching staff asks. Koufos, by all accounts, has done both. Millsap played plenty his first season; Koufos looks like he can contribute along similar lines and apparently has been working his ass off. No reason to think he won't play this year, if his effort level remains the same.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:14 AM   #6
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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Terrible might be too harsh a word. How about immature, lazy, selfish, inconsistent, and just plain not worth a roster spot

He's still the 2nd youngest guy on the team and would be going into his senior year of college. He's gotten better every year despite missing summer league the past two years. I thought he showed he could play in the league last year when called upon and his numbers show that as well and obviously Oklahoma and the Jazz think so too. He could very well be starting next season and playing major minutes. He was a 2nd round pick. Think people expect too much sometimes.

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I can actually see that the man has evolved his coaching philosophy during the post Stockton/Malone years

Don't see much difference myself. The whole organization seems to have learned little from the previous era.

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Millsap played plenty his first season

Athletes that make plays have played for him as rookies. Milsap played 4 years of college too. Not good odds that a 19 year old perimeter playing big man is going to play over Sloan's favorite son Collins. Expect him in Orem.
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Old 10-06-2008, 06:03 AM   #7
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

Was Mehmet Okur in good shape?
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

That's the word.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
Very familiar with him, and I can actually see that the man has evolved his coaching philosophy during the post Stockton/Malone years He rewards players who work hard and who try to do the things that the coaching staff asks. Koufos, by all accounts, has done both. Millsap played plenty his first season; Koufos looks like he can contribute along similar lines and apparently has been working his ass off. No reason to think he won't play this year, if his effort level remains the same.

I agree, I definitely wanted Sloan fired during the Stockton/Malone years (especially the early 90's), there were some obvious flaws in his coaching style, where he needed to bend and try something new instead of continuing to hit everyone's head against the wall in order to break it. He's always been a good coach, a great regular season coach, but too stagnant at times, he needed to give some players more of a chance (like he did in his later years with Millsap), and work on expanding his options by developing other players (even though they were less talented) and running a few different plays instead of everything going through Stockton and Malone in the postseason. It always hurt the Jazz that they played 4 on 5 on offense too. That style worked fine during the regular season, but come playoff time, the other teams would step up their defense, it still worked ok for the Jazz, but you could see lots of small things they could have done to adjust and improve that they never did. Eventually, Sloan started to adjust, and there came a point when I was happy with him and didn't want him to go, I didn't really feel there was anyone better out there that you could replace him with. Sloan grew immensely once Stockton and Malone left, it's too bad the same Sloan couldn't go back in time and coach the Stockton/Malone teams, I guess that's the main point I'm trying to make.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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He's always been a good coach, a great regular season coach

Considering how his teams teams have underachieved despite having great players that were healthy I'd disagree that he was ever a great coach. He was a good assistant and a big step up from Layden. Used to think he was a good defensive coach but I think his team now shows it was more about the players than him.

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he needed to give some players more of a chance (like he did in his later years with Millsap)

Millsap isn't the 1st rookie to play for him. Brewer could have helped them more as a rookie too but he sat the bench despite the Jazz having an even bigger need there with their 6'1" SG. That was typical Sloan. Falling in love with a vet that could have been better utilized and benching a talented youngster.

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work on expanding his options by developing other players (even though they were less talented) and running a few different plays instead of everything going through Stockton and Malone in the postseason

This might have happened because Boozer was hurt and the fact they can afford to have more talented players right now. Next season I would expect it to be more of a two man game again when the team is dismantled cuz they can't afford to pay everyone.

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you could see lots of small things they could have done to adjust and improve that they never did. Eventually, Sloan started to adjust, and there came a point when I was happy with him and didn't want him to go, I didn't really feel there was anyone better out there that you could replace him with

Change is good.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Considering how his teams teams have underachieved despite having great players that were healthy I'd disagree that he was ever a great coach. He was a good assistant and a big step up from Layden. Used to think he was a good defensive coach but I think his team now shows it was more about the players than him.


Who says they underachieved during the regular season? I think they usually overachieved. Many years they were quite limited in their overall talent, and still went on to be a top teamd during the regular season, it was in the playoffs where they often disappointed. They played at a higher level during the regular season because they played hard every night and had better work ethics and effort night in an night out than the other teams in the league. It was during the playoffs, where their talent was exposed, because they only had one notch they could go up, where other teams that coasted on their talent all year, were able to raise it 2 or 3 notches.



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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Millsap isn't the 1st rookie to play for him. Brewer could have helped them more as a rookie too but he sat the bench despite the Jazz having an even bigger need there with their 6'1" SG. That was typical Sloan. Falling in love with a vet that could have been better utilized and benching a talented youngster. "


No one said Millsap was the first rookie to play for him. But Sloan's frequency of giving second round rookies more rope to prove themselves and have a chance of breaking into the regular rotation has gone up dramatically. Millsap was just one example or where this happened recently. I don't know how you haven't noticed the changes in his coaching style.



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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
This might have happened because Boozer was hurt and the fact they can afford to have more talented players right now. Next season I would expect it to be more of a two man game again when the team is dismantled cuz they can't afford to pay everyone.


Where you "expect it to be a a two man game again", I expect it to be more well rounded, where youngsters are given a shot, and other players a chance to contribute meaningfully. Sloan has adjusted, it's been a positive thing, he has mentioned that he has learned a few things over the years, that he's not opposed to try some new things. I think he will continue to adjust and learn and try different things, where you think he will go back to how he was in the early 90's. I think people grow and continue to grow, they don't usually regress.



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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Change is good.

Not always... The Jazz could have been like The Clippers all these years instead. The Clippers are all about frequent "CHANGE", and look how far it's gotten them.
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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Who says they underachieved during the regular season? I think they usually overachieved. Many years they were quite limited in their overall talent, and still went on to be a top teamd during the regular season, it was in the playoffs where they often disappointed. They played at a higher level during the regular season because they played hard every night and had better work ethics and effort night in an night out than the other teams in the league.

Stockton and Malone are two of the greatest players ever and were healthy. They were up and down year to year year. Any other franchise in sport you from 1st to 3rd the coach gets fired.

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But Sloan's frequency of giving second round rookies more rope to prove themselves and have a chance of breaking into the regular rotation has gone up dramatically.

examples?

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you think he will go back to how he was in the early 90's. I think people grow and continue to grow, they don't usually regress

Don't think he ever left the early 90's. Sure he might have grown a bit but not much. He still lets the other team dictate the game. He still has his set substitution patterns. He still plays worthless stiffs like Collins over athletes.

Quote:
The Jazz could have been like The Clippers all these years instead. The Clippers are all about frequent "CHANGE", and look how far it's gotten them.

Or they could have been the Pistons where they've had no problems winning with the same players and different coaches.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
examples?
It all began in my mind 03-04. Stockton and Malone retired, and experts were picking the Jazz to win 12-18 games (the lowest in nba history). Sloan proved he can coach a bunch of youngsters to a 42 wins season with:

1 Andrei Kirilenko - (22 years old)
2 Matt Harpring - (in his prime, but only good for 32 games)
3 Gordan Giricek - (25 games)
4 Carlos Arroyo - (ask Orlando how good he was)
5 DeShawn Stevenson - (when he was still using his high school student id)
6 Raja Bell - (his breakout year)
7 Raul Lopez
8 Greg Ostertag
9 Jarron Collins
10 Maurice Williams
11 Sasha Pavlovic
12 Mikki Moore - (28 games from the D-league transfer)
13 Ben Handlogten - (yes, the mighty Handlogten!)
14 Tom Gugliotta - (25 games worth)
15 Curtis Borchardt - (16 terrible games)
16 Paul Grant - (who?)
17 Michael Ruffin - (brought out of early retirement to fill our roster...)
18 Keon Clark - (Utah's exciting big free agent landing gave his new franchise a total of 27 minutes in 2 games and decided to get his bone spurs operated on).

That team managed to stay above 500 in the midwest division that had all 7 teams above 500. The coach of year award still found someone else, though, probably since we missed the playoffs by a hair.


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Or they could have been the Pistons where they've had no problems winning with the same players and different coaches.

Yes, the Pistons are staying afloat due to their core roster staying together, but we'll see how they do if/when Billups, Hamilton, and Sheed move and so does their coaching staff.

Consider how well Sloan moved Utah through Stocton-Malone to AK and scrubs (with one bad year, i blame injuries) to the Williams-Boozer-AK-Okur future. Without that steady hand...Jazz music is playing in Oklahoma City.
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Just got back from the Jazz intersquad scrimmage...

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It all began in my mind 03-04.

He had no choice that year though.

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experts were picking the Jazz to win 12-18 games (the lowest in nba history)

9 is the low.

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Sloan proved he can coach a bunch of youngsters

We've seen in the league that with a star you can compete. Jazz had a star. Just showed me that AK, Deshawn and Tag should've been playing more before that year as I already thought.

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the Pistons are staying afloat due to their core roster staying together

Stockton and Malone wouldn't have won with any coach?

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we'll see how they do if/when Billups, Hamilton, and Sheed move and so does their coaching staff

Looks like they'll be fine. Dumars is one of the best. Already have young players competing with the vets and getting ready for when it's their turn.

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Consider how well Sloan moved Utah through Stocton-Malone to AK and scrubs

Should have been fired when they went from 1st to 3rd in the early years. He didn't move through the Stocton/Malone era that well.

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(with one bad year, i blame injuries)

Was more than injuries. Sloan started his same old stuff fighting with players, playing stiffs over talent, front office letting guys get away, trying to low ball restricted FA the year before, etc. Back to their old ways. Than when they got Deron playing him behing 2 stiffs.

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Without that steady hand...Jazz music is playing in Oklahoma City.

Giving him too much credit. O'Conner deserves some but ultimately it comes down to the players.
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