Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Los Angeles Lakers Forum

Los Angeles Lakers Forum Los Angeles Lakers message board - los angeles lakers fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-14-2009, 10:01 AM   #1
SoCalMike
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
SoCalMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Land of 16 NBA Championships
Posts: 20,739
Default Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Defense and heart win championships!


Source: Burning Camp Question 12: Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Quote:

Q: What are the chances the Lakers become the best defensive team in the NBA?

A: 48 percent.


The Lakers ranked sixth in the league last season in field-goal percentage defense, which is the category that really counts. Points allowed?



Misleading, because teams play at varied paces, and the Lakers play at a much higher pace and thus allow more points, even if they might not push it as much as the likes of Phoenix, New York, Indiana, Denver, Toronto and Sacramento this season. (If youíre a fantasy player, thatís a free tip from me to you to lean toward drafting players on those higher-output teams, by the way.)


As great a defensive weapon as Trevor Ariza was, the Lakers expect Ron Artest to give them even more on that side of the ball because he is unquestionably a more aware team defender with unquestionably more tricks up his sleeve. He also can be more physical, which is always a good thing on defense.


I asked Phil Jackson the other day what his plan was for unleashing Artest on opposing offenses, and he preferred to keep that in-house for now. But Andrew Bynum and Jordan Farmar stand to make sizable defensive improvements this season also.


The teams that ranked ahead of the Lakers in field-goal defense last season were: Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, Denver and Houston. Of those teams, you figure Boston (even if Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen show the expected slippage, Rasheed Wallace is a better defender than you think), Cleveland (not so much Shaquille OíNeal, but Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon are very strong defenders) and Orlando (Dwight Howard should be even better) are sure to be right up there again.


Nonetheless, thereís no reason to think the Lakers canít rise all the way to the top.





SoCalMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 11:55 AM   #2
tamaraw08
College star
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,841
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
Im very intrigued on why he kept mentioning the key players of these defensive minded teams and grossly ignored the main factors like their coaches. Boston's Tom Thibodeux, who formerly worked with Jeff Van Gundy. Orlando's Stan who worked with Pat Riley and Brendan Malone, a disciple of Chuck Daly, coach of the bad boys. Cav's Brown who served under Popovich. Were the these players he mentioned great stoppers before? Ray Allen, Pierce etc, really?
Could it be bec they have advanced scouting reports, that they formulated great defensive schemes, intricately worked on plugging their weaknesses, detailing each mistakes after games and held their players more accountable?

Its just amazing how many continue to give so much credit on the players and blame the coaches when the teams are not doing well. I can't even imagine how the lakers would have won these rings without Jackson, or the Spurs without Pops.
Phil wisely assigned Kurt to focus on defense and now he is gone, I am very intrigued on how he would adjust without him. It's easy to blame the players esp Fish for the 2nd game debacle vs the Warriors but upon watching the game more carefully, the team was not ready for those soft picks given to Ellis from the perimeter...
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 11:56 AM   #3
LA.MJ&KB#1
Decent college freshman
 
LA.MJ&KB#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,715
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

I think the lakers defense will improve this season no doubt..Top three for sure. I like the way Phil didn't answer the question about unleashing RonRon on opposing offenses and Andrew Bynum and Jordan Farmar should makes a big leap on the defensive side this season.


Phil is a master at motivating players and giving them confidence before the season even starts at least he got me ready to go..

Plus saying "Nonetheless, there’s no reason to think the Lakers can’t rise all the way to the top".

Question: Whats the latest on Tex Winter?

Last edited by LA.MJ&KB#1 : 10-14-2009 at 12:27 PM.
LA.MJ&KB#1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 12:07 PM   #4
LA.MJ&KB#1
Decent college freshman
 
LA.MJ&KB#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,715
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Im very intrigued on why he kept mentioning the key players of these defensive minded teams and grossly ignored the main factors like their coaches. Boston's Tom Thibodeux, who formerly worked with Jeff Van Gundy. Orlando's Stan who worked with Pat Riley and Brendan Malone, a disciple of Chuck Daly, coach of the bad boys. Cav's Brown who served under Popovich. Were the these players he mentioned great stoppers before? Ray Allen, Pierce etc, really?
Could it be bec they have advanced scouting reports, that they formulated great defensive schemes, intricately worked on plugging their weaknesses, detailing each mistakes after games and held their players more accountable?

Its just amazing how many continue to give so much credit on the players and blame the coaches when the teams are not doing well. I can't even imagine how the lakers would have won these rings without Jackson, or the Spurs without Pops.
Phil wisely assigned Kurt to focus on defense and now he is gone, I am very intrigued on how he would adjust without him. It's easy to blame the players esp Fish for the 2nd game debacle vs the Warriors but upon watching the game more carefully, the team was not ready for those soft picks given to Ellis from the perimeter...

Great points made tamaraw08..Repping

Do we know who took Kurt's position as defense coach? I hope Phil not the answer dude can't handle a full load with his current health concerns.
LA.MJ&KB#1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 12:20 PM   #5
lakerfreak
The go-to-guy
 
lakerfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,240
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

I don't think anyone can come up with a better defense than Kurt designed.

lets hope one of these guys prove me wrong.
lakerfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 12:26 PM   #6
LA.MJ&KB#1
Decent college freshman
 
LA.MJ&KB#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,715
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
I don't think anyone can come up with a better defense than Kurt designed.

lets hope one of these guys prove me wrong.

I hope somebody can do better then Kurt
LA.MJ&KB#1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 01:00 PM   #7
tamaraw08
College star
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,841
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
I don't think anyone can come up with a better defense than Kurt designed.

lets hope one of these guys prove me wrong.

but why reinvent the wheel? Surely Kurt doesn't own the copyright of his schemes....right?
Why not keep it, work on it and try to mask it's flaws?
One thing tho, I really like them to maximize their depth on the pt guard rotation. Since there is a logjam at the pt, why not maximize their energy and hound the other pt guard 90 feet, force them to use thier SGs to set their offense and set their pace?
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 01:04 PM   #8
tamaraw08
College star
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,841
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA.MJ&KB#1
Great points made tamaraw08..Repping

Do we know who took Kurt's position as defense coach? I hope Phil not the answer dude can't handle a full load with his current health concerns.

thanks, in the Mitch interview during the "realtime" training camp via nbatv. He said they didn't hire anybody new to fill the void left by Kurt but Phil didn't become one of the best coaches if he didn't knowhow to spot and maximize his assistants talent and abilities. Im guessing Jim Cleamons would get the job.
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 04:30 PM   #9
LA_Showtime
Magic Johnson
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,898
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

I hope so. This team is loaded with talent. They have a shot at becoming the best two way team in the NBA.

I would love to see Bynum - Gasol - Odom - Artest - Kobe. Funny enough, this lineup would work extremely well against the Blazers. Possibly the Celtics too.
LA_Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 05:14 PM   #10
bladefd
NBA rookie of the year
 
bladefd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,351
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

I have a newb question that I have been thinking about for years now and never got answered. Why can't the main coaches handle 1 side of the court on nba teams (it VERY rarely happens)? They usually set an assistant coach to take over the defensive responsibilities or offensive. I can understand it for most teams that may not have godly defense or godly offense, but in the Lakers case it is slightly different. They already have one of the greatest offenses ever right now (not one of the most consistent but you get my point).

My point: Why can't Phil Jackson take over the defense responsibility? I mean it is not like he has to focus on the offense at all. Lakers already have the best or at least top 2-3 offenses in the league. They can have one of the assistant coaches take over the offense responsibilities because the Lakers (primarily Pau, Kobe, Ron, Odom) don't need that much work on offense like some of the other teams out there. They already had a defensive scheme with Kurt, and I am sure Phil knows that scheme the best from the coaching staff (Kurt probably went through Phil to integrate the defense in the first place so I would think that Phil knows that scheme almost to perfection). I don't really trust the other assistant coaches that much tbh. Perhaps Phil Jackson isn't known for his defense (been following his career for years, but maybe I still overlooked that point)?

And yes, these are pretty newbie questions, but it is not something that should be overlooked.

Last edited by bladefd : 10-14-2009 at 05:18 PM.
bladefd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 07:35 PM   #11
All Net
Moderator
 
All Net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 20,452
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Maybe Phil will be taking over more of the defensive duties, he has stated he will be working more with Bynum than he has in the past. Maybe there could be a new role for Kareem?
All Net is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 12:24 AM   #12
gts
shhhhhhh
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Downtown Hoops Dojo
Posts: 29,249
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

bladefd tha's a great question, i think it has as much to do with the length of the season the number of games and the scouting as much as anything... it would be to much for one coach to try and remember during the game all the scouting on the other team on top of the game management...



rambis came up with the basic scheme last year, but the way he (rambis) explained it the various asst coaches were the ones that come up with the wrinkles in the defensive matchups game to game then they discuss it in the pregame coaches meeting and make tweaks...

obviously size has as much to do with defensive matchups as anything, there are matchups that are givens... bynum guards the big guys, fisher the little ones and kobe the good ones...lol

in the nba even if your center is your best defender you can't have him out on the perimeter chasing around point guards, he has to guard the paint and the other teams bigger men

it's not like the nfl where defensive schemes can be tweaked across the board, and you have the time to insitute changes during a week of practice, nba teams sometimes have less than 24 hours to put new things in place before the next game, remember the long road trips where the lakers sometimes don't even have a morning shoot around, just talk about the next game on the plane sleep in and get to the team bus on time the next afternoon...

phil has the various asst. coaches divy up the the other teams across the league and each is responsible for the scouting of the teams assigned to them, they also over see the making of the game tapes, then the game plan and tendencies is written up by that asst coach who in charge of that team, this same coach would coach the team should jackson not be able to be on the sidelines that night..

they try and isolate/identify a teams strengths and reduce those as much as possible and magnify the weakneses...

if you go to lakers dot com during the season and read their game day game plans you'll see it's written up by the asst. coaches, always rotating from game to game not just one... how they decide who takes which teams to scout and so on i have no idea...

Last edited by gts : 10-15-2009 at 12:39 AM.
gts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 02:12 PM   #13
gts
shhhhhhh
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Downtown Hoops Dojo
Posts: 29,249
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Timely article from the times...

By Broderick Turner
October 15, 2009 2:00 a.m.

Quote:
They are the three amigos now, having become that way after one of their foursome departed over the summer to run his own show.

There hasn't been any more pressure put on the shoulders of Lakers assistant coaches Jim Cleamons, Frank Hamblen and Brian Shaw since Kurt Rambis left them and became the head coach of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

However, the job duties for Cleamons, Hamblen and Shaw have increased, but it's not as though they haven't been faced with this before.

None of them are overwhelmed by the new situation. In fact, Cleamons, Hamblen and Shaw relish the opportunity.

"All of them have more responsibility, obviously, for defensive setups," Lakers Coach Phil Jackson said.

"A personal responsibility for me is working with some of the guys I thought Kurt took personal pride in coaching and helping," he added.

Rambis was in charge of the defense last season, a new position created under Jackson last season.

This season, the defensive onus falls on Cleamons, Hamblen and Shaw.

All of them have teams that they scout -- Cleamons and Shaw have 10 teams and Hamblen nine -- and it will be up to that assistant to put the defensive game plan in place for that night's opponent.

For example, when the Lakers play the Sacramento Kings tonight in Las Vegas at the Thomas & Mack Center, Hamblen will be in charge of the defensive assignment.

"We haven't talked about it, but my imagination is that we'll do it by committee," Cleamons said about that game's defensive plan.

"I think everything is in place. I think we know most of the sets that teams will use."

The NBA allows only three assistant coaches to sit on the bench during a game, so that meant that either Cleamons or Shaw sat behind the bench during some games, depending on who scouted that night's opposition.

Now all three of the assistants will be on the bench; the Lakers didn't hire another assistant.

"There is an awful lot of professionalism because of the respect we have for each other," Cleamons said. "I think we're always conscientious of giving each other space to talk. Sometimes one guy is going to say exactly what you're going to say.

"We've been together that long, so we know each other. We know when and how to fill in the gaps and the voids so we don't step on each other's toes and so that each one can do a credible job in his area of expertise."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...,3940166.story
gts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 04:20 PM   #14
tamaraw08
College star
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,841
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
bladefd tha's a great question, i think it has as much to do with the length of the season the number of games and the scouting as much as anything... it would be to much for one coach to try and remember during the game all the scouting on the other team on top of the game management...



rambis came up with the basic scheme last year, but the way he (rambis) explained it the various asst coaches were the ones that come up with the wrinkles in the defensive matchups game to game then they discuss it in the pregame coaches meeting and make tweaks...

obviously size has as much to do with defensive matchups as anything, there are matchups that are givens... bynum guards the big guys, fisher the little ones and kobe the good ones...lol

in the nba even if your center is your best defender you can't have him out on the perimeter chasing around point guards, he has to guard the paint and the other teams bigger men

it's not like the nfl where defensive schemes can be tweaked across the board, and you have the time to insitute changes during a week of practice, nba teams sometimes have less than 24 hours to put new things in place before the next game, remember the long road trips where the lakers sometimes don't even have a morning shoot around, just talk about the next game on the plane sleep in and get to the team bus on time the next afternoon...

phil has the various asst. coaches divy up the the other teams across the league and each is responsible for the scouting of the teams assigned to them, they also over see the making of the game tapes, then the game plan and tendencies is written up by that asst coach who in charge of that team, this same coach would coach the team should jackson not be able to be on the sidelines that night..

they try and isolate/identify a teams strengths and reduce those as much as possible and magnify the weakneses...

if you go to lakers dot com during the season and read their game day game plans you'll see it's written up by the asst. coaches, always rotating from game to game not just one... how they decide who takes which teams to scout and so on i have no idea...

What a great post indeed. I found more information with this than 10 combined articles from Simers, Plaschke and the so-called experts
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 09:17 PM   #15
bladefd
NBA rookie of the year
 
bladefd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,351
Default Re: Article: OC Register Blog - Will the Lakersí D become the best in the NBA?

Maybe they are saving that 4th spot for Fisher in 2 seasons or so?
bladefd is online now   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 AM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:

NBA Basketball

NBA Rumors

Basketball Blog

NBA Videos

Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy