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Old 02-28-2016, 09:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

Little knowledge bomb on you youngsters out there;

The winners and champions set the trends. I've seen a lot of ball and you'd be dumb not to see the clear stylistic shift that came after Miami.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:29 AM   #17
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

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Originally Posted by Im Still Ballin
Wilt

Kareem

Magic/Bird

Jordan

Barkley

Shaq

Lebron

Curry

Barkley along with Mark Jackson caused the 5 seconds back to the basket rule

Shaq got rid of illegal defense

Lebron popularized efficiency culture/made passing cool again/popularized position-less basketball/1-5 play versatility

A lot of the Golden State team today, is based upon the Miami Lebron teams fundamentals

This is a pretty nice list but pardon moi if I have slightly different opinion on that
We are talking purely players now I see, right? Not coaches who for the most part have had more impact on the game than players including ATGs.
You gotta have Mikan on there I mean dude introduced skilled big man which ruled basketball ever since.
Bill Russell introduced all kinds of defensive strategies.

Kareem - Magic/Bird - Jordan
No. None of these guys changed the game. They made it more popular, but they didn't change anything. They perfected existing styles but they didn't do anything new nor were rules changed around them. Now as I say that. I have Jabbar & Jordan as 2 of the 3 all time greatest ever when I say that (with #13) but fact is they excelled within the game they didn't change it. Jabbar and dunking in college but in a way that was stupid rule since many many great players had been dunking in college for decades, including Chamberlain & Russell, before he ever showed up. And anyhow that's college not NBA.

Barkley okay somewhat but why not list off Mark Price equally?
Shaq of course. Fouls stopped being called with Jordan but it went from star rules to no rules with O'Neal. Disclosure: i was a huge Lakers fan for 40 years.

LeBron no it was Steve Nash who did what James is getting credit for.

Curry of course.

Also saw somebody listed dr. j but his whole style was everywhere in the '60s already although nobody was as good at it as Erving except Connie Hawkins who was probably even better and a good 10 years earlier.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

I get it dude. You're young. Naive. New to the game of basketball. I've been all over the world. Seen it all. Done it all. Duked it out with the greats.

Why do you think spacing, 4 out/5 out offense became the hottest topic over the last 4 or so years? The champs set the stage. Everyone copies and styles evolve.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

Did Curry change the game or is he just the face of what the game changed too? Which is nothing more than the 3pt shot and the fact you don't have to worry about when (early shot clock) or how (contested) you shoot it. Just the fact you just...do.

Because Robert Covington 3pt attempts are damn near identical with his overall FG attempts. And if someone put together a highlight video of his 3's (kblaze the only soul who could and even I doubt he does it). You'd notice they are all...contested. Maybe you don't because you dont watch the sixers and trust me I'm not complaining.

The game today is jack 3's with no regard of a coach on the sideline giving you the Greg Pop verbal abuse and benching you. It's almost encouraged. Shit guys like Stan Van Gundy have encouraged that before Curry was known as Chef.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:40 AM   #20
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

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Originally Posted by Im Still Ballin
I get it dude. You're young. Naive. New to the game of basketball. I've been all over the world. Seen it all. Done it all. Duked it out with the greats.

Why do you think spacing, 4 out/5 out offense became the hottest topic over the last 4 or so years? The champs set the stage. Everyone copies and styles evolve.



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Old 02-28-2016, 09:41 AM   #21
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

Well I mean there's more to it than that but why not go all the way back Don Nelson's Mavs

There's always been this element to the game, atleast since the shortened 3pt line era... But never has the game been more focused on it. 5 players that can shoot on the court at once. Shooting centers were a gimmick in the past... Now for a lot of squads it's standard... Maybe playing small is a better description. Stretch PFs getting time at the C because there's a clear weakness into todays game and it's bullying bigs that can take advantage. But it's very hard to do so with rules today.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:45 AM   #22
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

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I bunked with John Hollinger in college. Had many yucky nights in the dorms having fun with J-Hols. That was his nickname on campus. Still keep in touch with him today. Always good to see what the hottest trends and fads are in league circles. Great guy. Couldn't hold down a pint very well though. Haha!
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:49 AM   #23
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Well I mean there's more to it than that but why not go all the way back Don Nelson's Mavs

There's always been this element to the game, atleast since the shortened 3pt line era... But never has the game been more focused on it. 5 players that can shoot on the court at once. Shooting centers were a gimmick in the past... Now for a lot of squads it's standard... Maybe playing small is a better description. Stretch PFs getting time at the C because there's a clear weakness into todays game and it's bullying bigs that can take advantage. But it's very hard to do so with rules today.

shooting centers was never a gimmick. Mikan introduced it. Look at some film of Willis Reed and Walt Bellamy, Chamberlain, Connie Dierking. Those were centers with face-up shooting in the 60s and there were more. 70s it accelerated. Bob Rule, Nate the Great, lots of em. Kareem is Mr. Skyhook but when he was young and athletic he had a beautiful face-up game. Jack Sikma, Bob Lanier, Dave Cowens were all great shooters from well outside the paint. Not a gimmick when all the best guys were doing it.

Now I do agree the rules need to be upgraded or back-graded because Stern lost all his testosterone in those last few years. Needs to be a manly game.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:54 AM   #24
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Still Ballin
I bunked with John Hollinger in college. Had many yucky nights in the dorms having fun with J-Hols. That was his nickname on campus. Still keep in touch with him today. Always good to see what the hottest trends and fads are in league circles. Great guy. Couldn't hold down a pint very well though. Haha!

lulz
bro I was watching Kareem win his first ring with Oscar & Bobby Dandridge in one of the hardest individual matchup playoff runs in history.... Kareem knocked em down one after the next Nate Thurmond then Chamberlain (although Lakers were missing West and Baylor) then Wes Unseld.... that was the year Hollinger was born
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

Star players score from all over the court. Always have. The concept of a shooting center that can space the floor was an afterthought atleast from 1981 onwards when Illegal defense came into effect. Hell that 72 win bulls team achieved some sentiment of floor spacing, and it sure wasn't by shooting ability alone. Rule enforced spacing. What a time to be alive for a star player.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:56 AM   #26
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

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lulz
bro I was watching Kareem win his first ring with Oscar & Bobby Dandridge in one of the hardest individual matchup playoff runs in history.... Kareem knocked em down one after the next Nate Thurmond then Chamberlain (although Lakers were missing West and Baylor then Wes Unseld).... that was the year Hollinger was born
Easy there youngster. Don't sprain the ankle. I actually helped formulate the original vanilla PER formula with Hollinger himself. He had come up with a baseline stat idea and gave me a ring to crunch some numbers. Need less to say we created something really special.
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Old 02-28-2016, 10:06 AM   #27
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Default Re: Players who changed the game

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Easy there youngster. Don't sprain the ankle. I actually helped formulate the original vanilla PER formula with Hollinger himself. He had come up with a baseline stat idea and gave me a ring to crunch some numbers. Need less to say we created something really special.

that's awesome dude. like..... far out.

So then I get to ask a major source an important basketball history question.
Why did Hollinger try to push PER onto players before 1974? It's the stupidity of that idea that makes it such a calamity.

Why did you zero out blocked shots for all players before 1974 and call that fair?

Wilt Chamberlain & Bill Russell get the same flat zero for their thousands of blocked shots as Bob Hogsett who played like 1 season and never made it off the bench.

REALLY??

other than that congrats per was a nice idea for certain real narrow applications.
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