Why does Dirk Nowitzki get a pass for 2004?

[97 bulls]

What?

Dirk was the only Mav in 04 in the playoffs that played well. Dirk was great...to be honest....unless somehow 27/12 56% TS as the main focus of the defense...125 ortg 98 drtg...while also being forced to play out of position at center.

You really going to say "Dirk wasn't playing at the level of his teammates"...really?

I mean...I know you really struggle with this stuff, but damn....I hope you just confused yourself.

Totally misrepresented my point. Im not arguing that the Mavs played bad outside of Nowitzki. But I often wonder how people can give so much credit to a teams best player when the team wins like was the case with Nowitzki in 11. But then lay so much blame when the team looses like in 2004.

And mind you, im just using the Mavs as an example.


Nowitzki wasn't forced to play center. He had to play center because he was such a bad defender.

[no pun intended]

I never understood why we can supposedly hand out a "pass" or not. This is the reality of it. Deal with it. Move on.

[DMAVS41]

Totally misrepresented my point. Im not arguing that the Mavs played bad outside of Nowitzki. But I often wonder how people can give so much credit to a teams best player when the team wins like was the case with Nowitzki in 11. But then lay so much blame when the team looses like in 2004.

And mind you, im just using the Mavs as an example.


Nowitzki wasn't forced to play center. He had to play center because he was such a bad defender.

I still don't follow. People give credit to the players that play the best...and generally don't blame guys that play great...it's not complicated.

In 04 Dirk shouldn't get any blame because he played great in the playoffs and everyone else sucked. Also, actually Dirk had to play center because of the team. We didn't have any centers. Najera was the only other guy that could even be remotely called a center...and he played 11 minutes per game in the playoffs.

So, for starters, you need to not be so ignorant about things you claim. Also, Dirk has the 2nd best drtg on the team that year in the playoffs. Only Howard had a better drtg and he only played 17 minutes per game.

So....uhh....you are just objectively wrong here.


As for 11? Well, of course Dirk gets the most credit. He was by far the best player on the team and played by far the best in the playoffs. In fact, the team fell apart when he wasn't on the floor.

So why wouldn't he get the most credit?

[97 bulls]

I didn't even make an argument. You're implying that Dirk didn't play as well as his teammates did, which is utter nonsense.

Lol how? I said everyone made great points. So I agree that the team played bad. You can't blame Nowitki. Im just looking at the other side of the coin. If a teams best player plays bad, and his team carries him, he still gets credit.

Look at 2011. Dirk didnt play well at all vs Portland and had a few stinkers vs Miami. But if I just went by what his fans were saying, its was all Nowitzki.

[brain drain]

Nowitzki wasn't forced to play center. He had to play center because he was such a bad defender.

Lol. Dirk was probably the best defender on that team - apart from Shawn Bradley whom Nelson hardly used that year.

[DMAVS41]

Lol how? I said everyone made great points. So I agree that the team played bad. You can't blame Nowitki. Im just looking at the other side of the coin. If a teams best player plays bad, and his team carries him, he still gets credit.

Look at 2011. Dirk didnt play well at all vs Portland and had a few stinkers vs Miami. But if I just went by what his fans were saying, its was all Nowitzki.

Wait a sec

27/8/3 58% TS while also defending LA far better than Chandler is...and I quote;

"Dirk didn't play well at all vs Portland"

Really?

Why are the standards for Dirk literally higher than any other player ever with you?

[SpecialQue]

Beautiful, another thread bitching about a great player "getting a pass" for losing.

[97 bulls]

Wait a sec

27/8/3 58% TS while also defending LA far better than Chandler is...and I quote;

"Dirk didn't play well at all vs Portland"

Really?

Why are the standards for Dirk literally higher than any other player ever with you?

Lol. He did check Aldridge. Chandler did.

Nowitzkis FG% vs Portland and Miami

35
41
48
41
44
65

39
46
52
32
50
33

Hardly anything special. And vs The Lakers and Thunder, all the Mavs played well.

But lets act as if he carried the Mavs

[DMAVS41]

Lol. He did check Aldridge. Chandler did.

Nowitzkis FG% vs Portland and Miami

35
41
48
41
44
65

39
46
52
32
50
33

Hardly anything special. And vs The Lakers and Thunder, all the Mavs played well.

But lets act as if he carried the Mavs

Again...just flat out ignorance. Dirk was moved onto LA for large stretches after LA was abusing Chandler. This isn't hard...it's a fact.

I'll say it again;

27/8/3 58% TS...that is really good.

Please stop listing just fg% like it means something.

You talked out of your ****ing ass, as usual, and won't admit you were wrong.

"didn't play well at all"

I ask again why your standards for Dirk are so high.

27/8/3 58% TS...and he absolutely did check LMA and did great on him...whether you want to admit it or not is irrelevant to the fact that it happened.

So really? You can't admit you were wrong about Dirk in the Blazers series? This is what this ****ing joke of a forum has now come to?

27/8/3 58% TS is considered not playing well at all? Really?

[FLDFSU]

Meh...so much of that is overblown.

For starters, Cuban was telling Dirk that there wasn't going to be a season. Also, Dirk played in the summer a lot and never got much rest as well.

Also, he played 62 of the 66 games. Got us into the playoffs...then went for;

27/6/2 56% TS...yea, what a bum.

Carmelo? You ****ing clown...the dude played 55 games in 12. 7 less than Dirk...and then shot a miserable 48.9% TS in the playoffs.

So what the **** are you talking about?

The man is the face of the franchise, a league MVP, and the reigning finals MVP. Sorry if I expect better from my leader coming off a finals victory.

The Mavs began the year 1-4, finished 7th in the standings, and got swept by the Thunder in LARGE PART because their LEADER came into the season wholly unprepared.

As for Carmelo, my analogy is BASED on him being the reigning finals mvp and missing time (not to an injury) while his team ADMITS he is completely out of shape.

And if you don't like Carmelo, lets use Lebron this past year. Played a ton of minutes going into this year, got married, and STILL did not miss a game because he needed to get back into game shape.

Dirk has had a fine first ballot HOF career and is one of my very favorite players, but 2011-2012 title defense was BEYOND pathetic.

[DMAVS41]

The man is the face of the franchise, a league MVP, and the reigning finals MVP. Sorry if I expect better from my leader coming off a finals victory.

The Mavs began the year 1-4, finished 7th in the standings, and got swept by the Thunder in LARGE PART because their LEADER came into the season wholly unprepared.

As for Carmelo, my analogy is BASED on him being the reigning finals mvp and missing time (not to an injury) while his team ADMITS he is completely out of shape.

And if you don't like Carmelo, lets use Lebron this past year. Played a ton of minutes going into this year, got married, and STILL did not miss a game because he needed to get back into game shape.

Dirk has had a fine first ballot HOF career and is one of my very favorite players, but 2011-2012 title defense was BEYOND pathetic.

Dude. He played in 62 of the 66 games and then played very well in the playoffs.

It wasn't some normal season. It was a season after winning the title, after playing in the Summer and getting hurt/sick, and then having Cuban telling him that the season was likely to be canceled.

And you want to go on and on about Dirk missing 4 ****ing games and putting up 22/7/2 56% TS and then in the playoffs doing 27/6/2 56% TS while getting no help, as usual, in the post season?

Yea...what a ****ing bum. He was only in year 14 having to play a brutal schedule condensed while carrying a team that lost two key players from the year before while incorporating a bunch of new talent and dealing with the Odom shit.

Yea...Dirk just did a terrible job in 12.

[FLDFSU]

Dude. He played in 62 of the 66 games and then played very well in the playoffs.

It wasn't some normal season. It was a season after winning the title, after playing in the Summer and getting hurt/sick, and then having Cuban telling him that the season was likely to be canceled.

And you want to go on and on about Dirk missing 4 ****ing games and putting up 22/7/2 56% TS and then in the playoffs doing 27/6/2 56% TS while getting no help, as usual, in the post season?

Yea...what a ****ing bum. He was only in year 14 having to play a brutal schedule condensed while carrying a team that lost two key players from the year before while incorporating a bunch of new talent and dealing with the Odom shit.

Yea...Dirk just did a terrible job in 12.

Dirk was (still is) one of the very best players in the NBA. For his talent and where he was in his career, 2012 was an unmitigated disaster.

Imagine Kobe Bryant coming into 2010-2011 season (title defense) SO unprepared and out of shape that the team has to pull him and sit him on the bench in order for him to get into game shape.

On what planet does Kobe get a pass for that? Because he just won a ring? Kobe (or any other player of Dirk's status) would be crucified.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk was (still is) one of the very best players in the NBA. For his talent and where he was in his career, 2012 was an unmitigated disaster.

Imagine Kobe Bryant coming into 2010-2011 season (title defense) SO unprepared and out of shape that the team has to pull him and sit him on the bench in order for him to get into game shape.

On what planet does Kobe get a pass for that? Because he just won a ring? Kobe (or any other player of Dirk's status) would be crucified.

So I assume you think 12 was a disaster for Kobe.

How about 05? Coming off one of the worst finals performances ever, drives Shaq and Phil out of town, misses 16 games and the playoffs in the heart of his prime.

How did Kobe ever recover.

You realize that Dirk had the season jump on him unexpected, lost key players from the team, had to play a brutal schedule while carrying a team of new players...had to deal with Odom.

And you are worrying about him missing 4 ****ing games?????

[97 bulls]

Again...just flat out ignorance. Dirk was moved onto LA for large stretches after LA was abusing Chandler. This isn't hard...it's a fact.

Lol. Whatever.

I'll say it again;

27/8/3 58% TS...that is really good.

Are thise his stats vs the Blazers and Heat? Or playoffs overall

Please stop listing just fg% like it means something.

NO!!!!! It wouldn't be a big deal if he was efficient on his shot attempts. Theres so many different ways to measure a players impact. Dirks ef percentage is largely dictated on his fts.

You talked out of your ****ing ass, as usual, and won't admit you were wrong.

Why are you so defensive? I don't see what wrong with giving THE TEAM credit for wins just like losses. That's it.

"didn't play well at all"

I ask again why your standards for Dirk are so high.

Overall. He did play well. But vs Portland and Miami? He didn't. He just took a lot of shots.

[DMAVS41]

Lol. Whatever.


Are thise his stats vs the Blazers and Heat? Or playoffs overall


NO!!!!! It wouldn't be a big deal if he was efficient on his shot attempts. Theres so many different ways to measure a players impact. Dirks ef percentage is largely dictated on his fts.


Why are you so defensive? I don't see what wrong with giving THE TEAM credit for wins just like losses. That's it.



Overall. He did play well. But vs Portland and Miami? He didn't. He just took a lot of shots.

Please listen.

Against the Blazers. Here were Dirk's numbers;

27 points / 8 rebounds / 3 assists / 1 steal / 1 block on 45% fg, 44% 3, 89% ft

How on earth is that "not playing well at all"??????

That is 58% TS...which is great by the way...in case you didn't know.

And even more, he guarded the other teams best player, by far, the best on our team and shot 50% in the 4th qtrs for the series.

He took a lot of shots? He took 19 shots a game....how is that a lot?



You can and should credit the team...but Dirk obviously deserves the most credit because he was by far the best player on the team and the Mavs kind of just sucked when he wasn't on the floor all year. The team just fell apart when he wasn't out there.