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Old 01-21-2008, 11:12 PM   #1
Robster89
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Default Laker trade idea

I was thinking about this after Bynum went down in the Seattle game, and with Ariza down now, I think it makes more sense.

Lakers trade:
Kwame
Vlad
Walton
Mihm
Sasha
2008 first round pick

To Seattle for:
Wally
Collison
Thomas

The trade works in the trade machine.

For the Lakers, we'd be getting a proven, veteran backup center in Kurt Thomas, who defends and rebounds.
We'd also get a gritty PF in Collison, who also defends and rebounds (something we all felt we needed even before Bynum/Ariza went down.
Wally gives us another 3 (which is now a pressing need).
He's a superb 3 point shooter. He has faults but we need some scoring off the bench, and right now, I could actually see him step in and start.

Why would the Sonics take these Laker leftovers?
Primarly because they shed Wally's bad contract. He makes 12 mil this year and 13 next, which doesn't fit in their rebuidling plans.
His salary also keeps them from having any significant FA money until 2010, which is a tough pill to swallow for a team that wants to rebuild.
By shedding his contarct, the Sonics would be about 14 mil under the cap this offseason, giving them the ability to add a significant FA (and making them one of the only teams in the league with significant FA money to spend this year, as most teams are already capped out.)

They also pick up another #1, giving them 3 in this years draft (they also have the Suns #1). So again, they'd be in prime position to add young talent in the draft as well.

Thomas's contract is up at the end of the season anyway, and its doubtful he stays in Seattle, so losing him doesn't hurt.

Collison is a solid player to lose, but its not like he'll ever be an all star.
He is basically a solid backup or role player, that's all. Plus, it opens more time for Wilcox, the guy they really need to build around, and allows for Durrant to play more forward, instead of SG, where he gets most of his minutes now. They'd have a great forward rotation with Wilcox, Durrant and Green, and could use their cap space and picks to address the center position and the guard spots. They should have a pretty good chance at a guy like Rose, Mayo or Hibbert with their own draft pick, then sign a marquee FA with their cap space (they'll have little competition for FA's) and add a few more late first rounders with the Laker and Sun picks.
Not a bad situation for a bad team that has a lot of rebuilding to do.
Vlad and Luke become bench players, and Kwame, Mihm and Sasha are all off the books at the end of the season.

The Lakers could send along some cash, and perhaps find a 3rd team to take Walton or Vlads contract for an extra expiring piece to send along to Seattle, making things even more tempting for the Sonics.

The Laker depth chart would look like this:
C-Bynum, Thomas, Mbenga
PF-Odom, Collison, Turiaf
SF-Ariza, Wally
SG-Kobe-Wally, Karl
PG- Fish, Farmar Critt

Thomas and Collison are exactly the kind of bench players this team needs.
Tough defenders and rebounders. And I'd be comfortable with either of them spot starting.
And even though Wally's contract is bad, it's not too much worse than the Vlad/Walton combo now, and it comes off the books after next season, so it's off the books the same year as Odoms, giving us valuable cap flexability in 2009.
We don't lose any core players, and add 3 solid role players (albeit one with a bad contract).
Our payroll would swell to about 70 mil next year, plus whatever Thomas cost to retain assuming we wanted to keep him, but remember, we are already capped out next year as it stands now, so we'd only have an MLE and a BIA to sign new players either way. The only piece I'd miss is the draft pick, but would we do better than Collison with a late first rounder?

I do think a starting 5 of Fish, Kobe, Ariza, Odom and Bynum, with a second unit of Farmar, Critt, Wally, Collison and Thomas would take us back up to the top of the WC, both this year and next.
Plus, with Collison able to start at PF anytime, we could use LO some at SF, giving us more depth there and allowing us to really create some size mismatches.

Right now, with Bynum and Ariza out, we could start, Fish, Kobe, Wally, LO and Thomas, or start Collison at PF and move LO to SF, and bring Wally off the bench. We'd be in much better shape until we get our studs back, and then we'd have a great bench, with more strength up front where we all felt we needed it anyway.

I know its controversial to take on a bad contract like Wally's, but I think, all in all, it would be a good move both for the Lakers and the Sonics.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:24 PM   #2
fiddy
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

You must be out of your mind.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:27 AM   #3
Walton_04
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

The bad thing about trade machines is that they leave out the human (common sense factor).

I really don't see a trade happening with those pieces you just mentioned; most teams don't really have any interest on 9th-12th man quality players. And only Sasha is healthy out of the bunch. Luke is looking terrible these days. They don't make Seattle better.

Mention Farmar or Javaris, you'll get someone's attention.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

I like this trade a lot.

I don't see seattle doing it because Wally is big in their plans and Collison is part of their young core that they want to keep.

The trade definitely swings in our favor though and Seattle doesn't want Vladimir back.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

As a Laker fan I'd love it. I think Collison has more ability in his left pinky than Kwame's entire body. I just don't think (as other's have mentioned) Seattle would take on so many of our guys. But, I mean on paper it seems like a good move, if we were able to pull it off. And I would be willing to put Crittenton in there for one of the other guys they don't want too (like Sasha or Mihm, etc).
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:24 AM   #6
ihatetimthomas
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

I dont see seattle parting ways with collison. plus they got to take a long term contract in vlad AND Luke? Thats def. the deal breaker there. They are looking to rebuild, not take on 2 lengthy deals. Collison is better than all of those players combined. He is very steady and solid. I would love for him to be on the Lakers but this deal is not going to happen. With this deal they are trading an expiring contract for another one, but getting 2 longer ones. They lose wallys contract but any deal they make is going to be aimed for rebuilding for the future. This deal does not do that You say getting wilcox for kwame is not possible? At least they benefit from the expiring contract. This deal is way way more farfetched.

Last edited by ihatetimthomas : 01-22-2008 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:19 AM   #7
Robster89
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
I dont see seattle parting ways with collison. plus they got to take a long term contract in vlad AND Luke? Thats def. the deal breaker there. They are looking to rebuild, not take on 2 lengthy deals. Collison is better than all of those players combined. He is very steady and solid. I would love for him to be on the Lakers but this deal is not going to happen. With this deal they are trading an expiring contract for another one, but getting 2 longer ones. They lose wallys contract but any deal they make is going to be aimed for rebuilding for the future. This deal does not do that You say getting wilcox for kwame is not possible? At least they benefit from the expiring contract. This deal is way way more farfetched.

You bring up some excellent points, and I know a trade like this is far fetched, I just wanted to throw it out for discussion.

If I were the Sonics, I wouldn't trade Wilcox, that's why I suggest Collison being in the deal.
Wilcox has way more upside than Collison. Collison is really just a good, solid role player. He'll never be an all star. He would be the biggest piece they part with, but with Wilcox, Green and Durant, they are already very deep at forward. I see those 3 as their young core.

Thomas is gone at the end of the year, so essentially swapping his expiring deal for Kwame's is not out of the range of possibility.

The reason I think they may want to think about it is that they get rid of Wally's contract. Look at their payroll, Wally is by far their highest paid player, and he doesn't fit in their future plans. If they hold on to him, they are essentially capped out this offseason, not a pleasent prospect for such a bad team. If they did this deal, they would be about 14 mil under the cap at years end, making them one of the only teams in the NBA with any significant cap space this offseason. So they could add a marquee guard or center. And, with 3 first rounders, they could add other significant young talent through the draft.

A trade like this fast forwards their rebuilding program, basically for the cost of Collison, who plays the same position as a guy I think they ought to build around, Wilcox. Imagine adding either Mayo or Rose in the draft, maybe a center with a later pick, and an all star caliber young guard through free agency. Add that to their core of Wilcox, Green and Durant, and they have something going.

We could always look to unload Luke or Vlad on a 3rd team, maybe Orlando, who needs a shooter to help stretch defenses for DW, for an expiring deal, which may be more palatable for Seattle than Luke and Vlad.

I like the deal for both teams, once you look at what it would do in opening cap space for Seattle.

I have always admired Thomas and Collison. They would be a huge upgrade over Kwame and Mihm for us. I have always worried about our lack of size with Lamar at the 4.
Wally's contract is huge, but it only runs one more season after this. And since we are already capped out next year, we cant add anything of significance anyway. If you add Luke and Vlads contracts, Wallys is only a few million heavier, and it expires sooner. And I think Wally would be a good triangle fit.

I know its highly unlikely, I'm just throwing it out for discussion.
I think if you look at what it does for Seattles cap space situation, it does make sense for them as well.
And I love your idea for swapping Kwame for Wilcox, I think Wilcox is awesome, I just think that, if I were Seattle, I would consider him part of my core, and wouldn't consider moving him for Kwame's expiring deal.
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:22 PM   #8
Laker Magic 32
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

I dont think this makes us a championship team. Wally has had his struggles since leaving minny. He's been consistent, which is what we can say about Vlad so that is a veritcal move. Collison would be a good addition, but Thomas is going to retire soon, so what's the point?

We're losing 5 players and a draft pick for one solid player and 2 role players? Not worth the damage it would create in team chemistry. Trading away 5 players is like a firesale which happens to rebuilding teams, not us.
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Laker trade idea

Well, that's quite an epic you wrote to defend your trade.
Why trade for Kurt Thomas when Kwame is just as good (and expiring).
Why trade for Collison's contract when Turiaf is almost as good..and expiring.
I like Wally's shooting touch, but that's ALL he can do...and brings an ugly contract.

Doesn't look like it does much for us at the end of the day.

Maybe if it was just Kwame & VRad for Wally & Collison.... still, I would have to think about giving up that cap flexibility for a pure shooter.
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