Kobe Bryant:

[ZenMaster]

why did you have to bring skin color into it ??? USA basketball players >>>>>

If you can't acknowledge that, then you and mr. beans are delusional.

This thread is about the basketball development system, not who has the better players.

Blacks are superiors athletes, the US has more blacks than Europe.

The white players of the US aren't as good as those of Europe. This is because the development system is better. It's not that hard to comprehend.

@ Batz

What are you talking about? The German Lebron is Dirk Nowitzki.

[Hammertime]

It has nothing to do with fundamentals and flash and everything to do with level of play and competition.

European players turn pro at 15-16. American players do it from 19-22. That's 3-4 years of intensive development American players miss out. At 17, if you're a prospect, you should be having practice twice a day, not twice a week. Europeans have a tremendous advantage in that regard.

The other part is that the competition can be pathetic. Andrei Kirilenko was the MVP of a fairly strong Russian league at 18. This means beating out former NBA-players, quality European veterans, other talented youngsters...Who did John Wall play against at 18? Future postmen, accountants, waiters, and Div3 standouts.

It's worst for American big men. Al Jefferson's senior year HS stats look like this: 42.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 7 BPG, and 4 APG. All this while shooting 72%(!!!) from the field. That's ridiculous. How does dominating a bunch of kids like that help development? Then you wonder why Al can't make it rain down from outside like Okur? How could he, when he never had to learn? He just dominated his HS opposition because he was stronger, bigger, and quicker than anyone else. Hell, that's the same reason LeBron still can't shoot worth anything. He never really needed a shot.

As a matter of fact, which American prep-to-pro star came into the league with an outside shot? The guy whose name is in the thread title. That's it.

[Batz]

now you are talking completely out your ass.

no one is saying one player is better than the other, not sure why you are so adamantly defending the superior American players.

fact is, HS, AAU, and NCAA route is NOT the best way to develop talent, and your desire to change the focus (from the system to the player) exposes the flaw in your argument.

NCAA not the best way to develop talent? The best players in the history of the NBA went through the NCAA...

[JtotheIzzo]

It has nothing to do with fundamentals and flash and everything to do with level of play and competition.

European players turn pro at 15-16. American players do it from 19-22. That's 3-4 years of intensive development American players miss out. At 17, if you're a prospect, you should be having practice twice a day, not twice a week. Europeans have a tremendous advantage in that regard.

The other part is that the competition can be pathetic. Andrei Kirilenko was the MVP of a fairly strong Russian league at 18. This means beating out former NBA-players, quality European veterans, other talented youngsters...Who did John Wall play against at 18? Future postmen, accountants, waiters, and Div3 standouts.

It's worst for American big men. Al Jefferson's senior year HS stats look like this: 42.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 7 BPG, and 4 APG. All this while shooting 72%(!!!) from the field. That's ridiculous. How does dominating a bunch of kids like that help development? Then you wonder why Al can't make it rain down from outside like Okur? How could he, when he never had to learn? He just dominated his HS opposition because he was stronger, bigger, and quicker than anyone else. Hell, that's the same reason LeBron still can't shoot worth anything. He never really needed a shot.

As a matter of fact, which American prep-to-pro star came into the league with an outside shot? The guy whose name is in the thread title. That's it.

exactly

[ashbelly]

now you are talking completely out your ass.

no one is saying one player is better than the other, not sure why you are so adamantly defending the superior American players.

fact is, HS, AAU, and NCAA route is NOT the best way to develop talent, and your desire to change the focus (from the system to the player) exposes the flaw in your argument.

The euro system is not better than AAU, NCAA, Evident by the Superstars both the NCAA,AAU and the Europen club systems churns out. Why is this hard to understand ??

[hito da god]

what do you mean average ??? Darko was a top prospect? what happened ?? Kwame >>> darko, Thats as average as it gets. Apart from the gasol brothers, sabonis and a handful players, this euro players can't hold a candle. The european game is the 80's NBA version. The USA has evolved the game so much to make it an entertainment. It's like Brazil soccer and European soccer, the brazillian soccer is far way more entertaining to watch than euro's soccer.

and how did brazil fare in the world cup?

the NBA, basketball wise, is terrible to watch.... you know the level of skill is in the toilet when the ability to make a mid-range jump shot makes you stand out in the NBA. i think where this is most apparent is when you look at european big men as opposed to american big men. guys like gasol, yao, yi, dirk, etc. are praised for their skill as seven footers. is there any reason an american seven footer shouldn't be just as skilled? not at all, they would just rather work on their running, jumping, and strength than their footwork and touch around the basket.

entertainment wise the NBA is fantastic. from a basketball purists' point of view, most would rather watch college or euro league..... for the record, i would rather watch the NBA but there is no denying the fundamental skills are severely lacking in today's game.

[JtotheIzzo]

NCAA not the best way to develop talent? The best players in the history of the NBA went through the NCAA...

that is because EVERY NBA player went through the NCAA until around 20 years ago.

I'd rather have my child prodigy going up against men daily in practice instead of little HS kids.

Imagine if LBJ played for the Cavs youth team instead of SVSM? He'd be attending the pro practice from age fifteen onwards, he's game would be so much further along.

The examples above of big men etc...

Not sure why everyone is so butthurt to admit the club system would be better?

[Batz]

and how did brazil fare in the world cup?

the NBA, basketball wise, is terrible to watch.... you know the level of skill is in the toilet when the ability to make a mid-range jump shot makes you stand out in the NBA. i think where this is most apparent is when you look at european big men as opposed to american big men. guys like gasol, yao, yi, dirk, etc. are praised for their skill as seven footers. is there any reason an american seven footer shouldn't be just as skilled? not at all, they would just rather work on their running, jumping, and strength than their footwork and touch around the basket.

entertainment wise the NBA is fantastic. from a basketball purists' point of view, most would rather watch college or euro league..... for the record, i would rather watch the NBA but there is no denying the fundamental skills are severely lacking in today's game.

Then howcome these skilled mother****ers don't rule the NBA?

that is because EVERY NBA player went through the NCAA until around 20 years ago.

I'd rather have my child prodigy going up against men daily in practice instead of little HS kids.

Imagine if LBJ played for the Cavs youth team instead of SVSM? He'd be attending the pro practice from age fifteen onwards, he's game would be so much further along.

The examples above of big men etc...

Not sure why everyone is so butthurt to admit the club system would be better?

Because there is no evidence at all that the club system in Europe is superior.

[hito da god]

This is what you fail to understand though, the USA team this year is a crop of new players, i can bet you a team like Greece will be recycling their old players again. How is this developing their young players ???, say all you want but i'm for the development of new talents, which USA shits on all of them.

the only reason the younger players are representing team USA is because the players from the redeem team don't want to play, for whatever their reasons might be.

it's not because jerry colangelo is so concerned with "developing young talent"

[yobore]

The euro system is not better than AAU, NCAA, Evident by the Superstars both the NCAA,AAU and the Europen club systems churns out. Why is this hard to understand ??

That probably has more to do with the popularity of basketball in Europe. I think the different level pro leagues and more distributed minutes probably do help them develop faster.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Thanks for completely misinterpeting what I meant by dominant. I didn't mean Wilt Chamberlian like dominance. I mean dominance. Lebron 30/8/8 season is dominant. Bryants 35/5/5 season is dominant. Mcgrady's 32/6/7 season is dominant. And they're all American perimeter players. So where are the dominant European perimeter players?

LeCon, Kobe, and Stacy McLady never dominated the NBA. Obviously you have no clue what the word dominate means.

[DuMa]

the club system is definitely better and i think thats why we have a developmental league for kids who dont want to go to college and instead work on their pro game. its the same way that its obvious a minor league system like in MLB develops talents much better than a collegiate or high school system.

[lakerspng]

ALl I'm hearing in this thread right now is one side saying players in this country don't work on their skills enough and therefore are not the players they could be. and the other side saying, they're already better so why should they need to.

Isn't the idea to become the best player you can be? There is no reason whatsoever that a physically gifted athlete like Dwight Howard should have such an ugly and limited offensive game. With his speed, strength and coordination, he should be simply unstoppable. Give him Pau Gasol's footwork and touch, he'd average 35-40 ppg. So, why doesn't he? It's not because he doesn't have the capability, it's simply because he did not spend the time working on it. Better yet, give Pau Gasol Dwight Howard's body and I guarantee you the discussion between Kobe, Lebron and Dwade is for who's 2nd best in the league because the top spot would be on lock.

Just because they're already good doesn't make it okay to ignore a current flaw in their development that's keeping them from being their best. And it's not putting down American athletes to admit that it is a flaw.

[ashbelly]

It has nothing to do with fundamentals and flash and everything to do with level of play and competition.

European players turn pro at 15-16. American players do it from 19-22. That's 3-4 years of intensive development American players miss out. At 17, if you're a prospect, you should be having practice twice a day, not twice a week. Europeans have a tremendous advantage in that regard.

The other part is that the competition can be pathetic. Andrei Kirilenko was the MVP of a fairly strong Russian league at 18. This means beating out former NBA-players, quality European veterans, other talented youngsters...Who did John Wall play against at 18? Future postmen, accountants, waiters, and Div3 standouts.

It's worst for American big men. Al Jefferson's senior year HS stats look like this: 42.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 7 BPG, and 4 APG. All this while shooting 72%(!!!) from the field. That's ridiculous. How does dominating a bunch of kids like that help development? Then you wonder why Al can't make it rain down from outside like Okur? How could he, when he never had to learn? He just dominated his HS opposition because he was stronger, bigger, and quicker than anyone else. Hell, that's the same reason LeBron still can't shoot worth anything. He never really needed a shot.

As a matter of fact, which American prep-to-pro star came into the league with an outside shot? The guy whose name is in the thread title. That's it.

This is the biggest myth i see being passed around.. They say players in the euro systems play against grown men at a younger age and are more developed than the USA prospects. Yet when you put both players in the same court, the europlayers underachieve. Ricky rubio is a good example, this kid can't hang in the NBA..

[ZenMaster]

The euro system is not better than AAU, NCAA, Evident by the Superstars both the NCAA,AAU and the Europen club systems churns out. Why is this hard to understand ??

Yes it is. The European system produces more superior basketball talent from players with lesser athletic ability. If the basketball clubs in Europe had the same access to athletic players as those in the US they would develop better overall players as well.