Plumbing vs. Forestry

[Akrazotile]

I know guys with a forestry degree that make $80k a year just a few years after they left university.
Also, forestry is obviously an extremely important subject to study, because without forests mankind is facked

But how many foresters do we need?

My point is about this 'free educational degrees for everyone!' idea.

The liberal thought process is that anyone who goes to school will make more money by getting a degree. That's what this is all about. Their fantasies of "Making every1 teh equal!"

Well you can earn an equal amount of money as the average forester with a masters degree, by being a plumber. And you'll actually make more money over your career due to the time not spent reading Moby Dick becuase it was part of your English gen ed requirements etc. for forestry.

[Akrazotile]

Wild guess here but I don't think people get into forestry for financial gain.

Bruh I'm comparing the SALARIES of a masters degree occupation to a labor occupation to dispute the notion that more degree holders will make the country more prosperous.

[Brunch@Five]

But how many foresters do we need?

My point is about this 'free educational degrees for everyone!' idea.

The liberal thought process is that anyone who goes to school will make more money by getting a degree. That's what this is all about. Their fantasies of "Making every1 teh equal!"

Well you can earn an equal amount of money as the average forester with a masters degree, by being a plumber.

the "liberal" thought process is not only about making more money. One part certainly is to enable everyone independently of their socio-economic background to go study so they can theoretically take up any job they want (be it in the field of forestry or to become a lawyer).
Also, in a knowledge-based economy which we live in in the western world, it is clearly and unequivocally better to improve opportunities for everyone to go study.
If you really think a society is better of with more vocational training and less college, you're stupid.

[Akrazotile]

the "liberal" thought process is not only about making more money. One part certainly is to enable everyone independently of their socio-economic background to go study so they can theoretically take up any job they want (be it in the field of forestry or to become a lawyer).
Also, in a knowledge-based economy which we live in in the western world, it is clearly and unequivocally better to improve opportunities for everyone to go study.
If you really think a society is better of with more vocational training and less college, you're stupid.

Germany has done it this way for years and is the strongest economic country in Europe.

You are completely clueless as to how many jobs don't really necessitate the amount of time spent in college to be performed effectively. You think you need a degree to learn 'marketing'?? You could read a textbook over the summer, do an internship in the fall, and if you're actually creative and passionate about the field, you can be a successful marketer. The only reason you couldn't get hired is because companies are LAZY about qualifications and use degrees to weed people out. That laziness should not fall on the pocket book of the US tax payer.

Same with 'psychology' degrees. Do you have any idea how many kids in America are getting these things because they don't know what else to do in school? Waste of time, waste of money.

I know a chick who got a BS in communications and wanted to get into real estate. I know her, because she's the receptionist at my apartment building's office.


This "everoyne needs a dergree!" attitude is for suckers who just accept whatever the social consensus is at the time. About education, about race, about economy, about everything. People with no nuance in their thought, who just mindlessly stick up for the 'everytins a injustice!!!!' doctrine of their peer group. Would it be fair to say you are that sort of person, or nah?

[Akrazotile]

His economics are way off. I'm not going to argue with a troll about the value of going to school vs being a test subject or plumber.

That's convenient.


Although I'm using his own figures, so I don't see what could be so off about them. If anyone knows forest gnomery, it's him. And he told us in the other thread you earn 52k per year with a masters in forestry.

[Brunch@Five]

there's a difference between "no one should be prevented from going to university for financial reasons" and "everyone should go to university".
Also, the western society is built on what is written in books. The more people go to school/university and the more they read, the better for society. It's that easy.

[Akrazotile]

there's a difference between "no one should be prevented from going to university for financial reasons" and "everyone should go to university".
Also, the western society is built on what is written in books. The more people go to school/university and the more they read, the better for society. It's that easy.

Nobody is tho. There are plenty of scholarships available. Including scholarships simply for being low income and/or minority. And if we DIDNT send all the kids now who shouldnt be there, tuition would drop substantially.

Between scholarships and work-study programs that help cover tuition for a few hours a week serving food in the cafeteria, I think we have enough to cover college expenses for those low income kids who enter college with good grades AND a career path in mind.

We dont need every kid going to school to study psychology or african american history. The fact that some cant afford to is completely immaterial, bc they shouldnt be doing it anyway. Virtually nobody should. Top students who have select career paths and need financial assistance already have access to it, and thats whom it should be reserved for. Some kid with B- grades and a whatever attitude isnt going to just automatically make a wonderful for himself bc someone sent him to college to study communications. And I know everyone feels sympathy if his name is Laquantrelle and he comes from a rough neighborhood. But he still doesnt need to be in college if hes not planning to pursue a specific field of career options. Yall just wanna put him there to include him. Its another big magnanimous noboe act from the sjw left. Yall dont care if its necessary or makes any sense whatsoever - if hes not ABLE to be included, then yall wanna make sure to include him. Thats the whole thing this is about. An sjw crusade to put lots and lots of people where it doesnt make sense to be in the first place, just to complete the mandatory sacraments for the Liberal Church of Equality.

[Brunch@Five]

you are a fool if you think success in our education system is only based on merit

[Akrazotile]

you are a fool if you think success in our education system is only based on merit

You think teachers are gettin bribed by rich kids for better grades?

[Brunch@Five]

You think teachers are gettin bribed by rich kids for better grades?

yes that is exactly what I think.

[Akrazotile]

yes that is exactly what I think.

Just help me understand some of this, bro.

It's well known that education is an inflated bubble right now. Even Mark Cuban said so a few years back. Said it's no different than the housing bubble. Said forgiving student debt is the worst thing we could do. Link.

Now, tell me this. Do you think making college free for everyone who feels like showing up will give them incentive to work harder and take it more seriously, or no? Will there be any sense of urgency for a 18 year old who has no idea what he wants to do in life and is just in college because he's supposed to and the whole thing is free? Is this a valuable investment for taxpayers?

Do you think handouts and free stuff make people work more or less hard?

We've established that psychology, marketing, communication, gender studies, political science, and other vague shit you could easily learn on your own if you have a passion for doing so, are worthless majors. You believe we need to pay inflated tuition costs (which will rise significantly if we give Uncle Sam the bill) so that every kid can go waste his time on this shit if he feels like it?


Explain to me the DETAILS of why you think this is a good thing.

I don't have a problem with scholarships for kids with good grades in specific fields who need help. I'm completely reasonable to SPECIFIC ideas that are sensible. If you have more nuance than just 'make it free 4 every1!' then tell me what's up. Hit me with facts.

[Brunch@Five]

if you think that subjects like political science and psychology are "vague shit you could easily learn on your own" I don't know of we have a common basis to talk about the benefits and challenges of higher education.
It seems that you think that a country/society works like a company, and that we are not "citizens" but human capital. It'd be short-sighted a prosperous society follows purely from cost-benefit calculations.

also, did you just quote Marc f*cking Cuban to prove your point on student loans?

[Akrazotile]

if you think that subjects like political science and psychology are "vague shit you could easily learn on your own" I don't know of we have a common basis to talk about the benefits and challenges of higher education.
It seems that you think that a country/society works like a company, and that we are not "citizens" but human capital. It'd be short-sighted a prosperous society follows purely from cost-benefit calculations.

Tell me what you majored in then let's talk history, politics, and psychology.

I am extremely interested in these subjects, just not vocationally, so I dropped out of school and learn what I can about them on my own simply for my own personal development.

But you presumably have a bachelors and therefore are more learned than I in these subjects. Even if it's an unrelated degree. You still went to college and thus know these things well.

So I assume you know far more than me, and I would like to pick your brain.

What was your field of study?

[Dresta]

Wild guess here but I don't think people get into forestry for financial gain.

Yeah, science doesn't pay very well compared to lots of other things. I know FRS members who don't earn more than 100,000 pounds a year, and it takes basically your whole life to get to that level, and most never get there. Most don't even get group leader positions.

Though in America you can make much more, but the science is less enjoyable, as you're always having to apply for funding, which takes time from research, whereas in the UK you have your funding for 5 years when you have't got to worry about it. Alan Ashworth is earning a fortune down in San Francisco now, but that's really a rarity, probably like .01% of people who go into science or something.

So yeah, it obviously has to be your passion for it to be worthwhile.

[longtime lurker]

I can't tell if this thread is a dig at degrees, forestry degrees, or just DW.

Dunn what OP is thinking considering that Deuce is more educated and making more money than the failed actor and college drop out