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Old 07-15-2013, 01:18 AM   #6451
Dresta
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Seriously, anyone that thinks Zimmerman should have been found guilty has not the slightest clue about the law and the legal process. This was a clear-cut case of self-defence, and certainly had nothing to do with race. The only person that should be facing charges now is that disgraceful and lying prosecutor.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:21 AM   #6452
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ23forever
True, unless Zim and O'Mara want to make an example out of NBC. They can force it to go to court by refusing to settle. Can he go after CNN too for airing his social security number on TV?

I don't think so for a couple reasons. one is was aired live during the trial. it was an honest mistake, they were only broadcasting the evidence as it was displayed to the court in real time but more importantly the clerk is supposed to make sure all that type of info is blocked/redacted before it's presented but it's not the clerks job to actually block it out, ultimately the fault lies with the attorney that entered it into evidence. Even if the trial isn't being presented on TV all that info like SS# or DL#s should be blocked.

Now if CNN ran and reran the info over and over then they've got a problem.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:25 AM   #6453
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dresta
This was a clear-cut case of self-defence, and certainly had nothing to do with race.

That is simply not known and never will be.

It's fair to say he deserved his verdict in an absence of evidence which leaves reasonable doubt, but there is no way to know if he was simply defending himself and didn't initiate the physicality himself.

If I have missed any proof along the way that goes against that, please let me know and correct my uninformed stance.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:27 AM   #6454
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
You notice anything that all those cases may have had in common? Maybe that there was a common uniting factor between all of them? OH YEAH, EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WAS LAW ENFORCEMENT.


By precedent, I meant this is the first time that the federal government would utilize such charges against a regular, average, every day civilian. In the past they had even argued that these charges would only be brought against individuals working for government, either local or federal.


So yes, this would be precedent setting and it would be a very bad precedent indeed because even though you were acquitted in a state court, the federal government would essentially put you through double jeopardy if they felt so inclined. No matter where you stand on the issues regarding this trial, this is bad policy.

Then once again you would be completely wrong. Follow the link I posted above to see tons of federal civil rights cases against 'regular, average, every day civilians'.

Just to drive the point home...

U.S. v. Nelson

On the evening of August 19, 1991, a station wagon struck two children in the Crown Heights area of Brooklyn, New York. The driver of the car was Jewish, and both children were African American. A crowd soon gathered at the scene of the accident. As some of its members tried to help the injured children, others began to attack the driver of the car. The first ambulance to arrive, which came from a Jewish hospital, treated and, at the direction of the police, transported the injured driver to the hospital. Soon after the first ambulance departed, two additional ambulances treated and transported the seriously injured African American children to the hospital, where one ultimately died.

By the time the children were transported from the scene of the accident, a crowd of several hundred people had formed. About three hours after the accident, Charles Price, an African American man, began to address the crowd and concluded his speech with calls to “get the Jews.” The crowd then began to turn violent, and headed to a predominantly Jewish commercial street. After attacking several Jewish people, the crowd came upon Yankel Rosenbaum, a bearded man in orthodox Jewish dress. A member of the crowd, possibly Price, yelled “get' em” and “there goes one.” Someone else in the crowd was also heard to shout “get the Jew, kill the Jew.” A group of ten to fifteen people began beating Rosenbaum, including Lemrick Nelson. A police car arrived and Nelson tried to flee along with the other assailants of Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum grabbed hold of Nelson’s clothing, and Nelson fatally stabbed Rosenbaum in order to get away.

Nelson was tried in New York State Court on a number of charges, including second- degree murder. In October 1992, a state jury acquitted Nelson of all charges. Following Nelson’s acquittal, Nelson and Price were indicted on federal charges in August 1996. Nelson was charged with violating 18 USC § 245, which protects citizens who are engaging in federally protected activities such as using a facility administered by the state, in this case, the streets of Brooklyn. Price was charged both with violating 18 USC § 245(b)(2)(B) and with violating 18 USC § 2 by aiding and abetting Nelson’s violation of 18 USC § 245(b)(2)(B).

On February 10, 1997, following 20 hours of deliberations over a four day period, the federal jury convicted both Nelson and Price on all charges. Nelson was sentenced to 234 months in prison and Price was sentenced to 262 months in prison.
So yeah, the DOJ possibly charging Zimmerman with Federal Civil Rights charges would not set any sort of precedent, it would just be business as usual. Even more so considering they already have an open, ongoing case against him that began before he was even charged by the State of Florida.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:39 AM   #6455
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
That is simply not known and never will be.

It's fair to say he deserved his verdict in an absence of evidence which leaves reasonable doubt, but there is no way to know if he was simply defending himself and didn't initiate the physicality himself.

If I have missed any proof along the way that goes against that, please let me know and correct my uninformed stance.
this.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:49 AM   #6456
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
That is simply not known and never will be.

It's fair to say he deserved his verdict in an absence of evidence which leaves reasonable doubt, but there is no way to know if he was simply defending himself and didn't initiate the physicality himself.

If I have missed any proof along the way that goes against that, please let me know and correct my uninformed stance.
I was not talking about having 100% definitive proof that Zimmerman was innocent - very few incidents (if any) ever actually meet that standard. I said in respect to the law the prosecution did not have a leg to stand on (they were not even close to having sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt), and they knew it; which is why they had to lie and submit a false affidavit in order to obtain a 2nd degree murder charge. The whole thing was a load of politicised bullcrap.

50% of murder victims in the US are black, 93% of those murders are committed by other black individuals, George Zimmerman was not even white - what an earth does this have to do with race? Nothing, other than allowing a bunch of self-serving wankers to pursue their own selfish objectives regardless of whether a (most likely) innocent man's life is ruined in the process. It is a joke that this has got the amount of attention it has, especially when black men are killing each other all over the country and no one cares.

Hypocrites the lot of em.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:51 AM   #6457
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameerthefear
this.
You also need to learn to read then.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:00 AM   #6458
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by daily
Nice read, I had no problem understanding it. thanks.

Care to point out some inconsistencies then? I know you won't because you never back up anything you say, but one day you might show your virtual intelligence here - why not today???

WASHINGTON — It’s extremely unlikely George Zimmerman will pay a civil fine for killing Trayvon Martin, according to lawyers in Florida and other legal experts. One Florida law professor said he’d be “stunned” if a federal prosecution of Zimmerman goes ahead. So did he use civil fine to mean civil rights???

“Technically, there can still be a civil case,” said Tamara Rice Lave, a professor of criminal law at the University of Miami and a former San Diego public defender. “However, Stand Your Ground is going to preclude that.”

At the start of his trial, Zimmerman waived the right to have a judge determine he was immune from prosectuion in the Martin shooting under to Stand Your Ground, which says people can use deadly force rather than flee a situation where they feel their lives are in danger. After his acquittal, Zimmerman can rely on getting that immunity in a civil case, Lave said. So he can rely on the immunity he waived???


“One of the things that Stand Your Ground does, is it says that if you prove by a preponderance of the evidence, which is 51%, that you acted lawfully under Stand Your Ground you can’t be prosecuted criminally sued civilly, and he’s just gotten a not guilty verdict,” she said. “And so it’s pretty clear he’s going to win that.” So tell us, winning a self defense case is the equivalent to winning a Stand Your ground case. The two can be taken as one? Do you think the two are equal?

“It’s still hard, given a acquittal, to win in a civil case,” he said. He noted that if Zimmerman doesn’t get immunity under Stand Your Ground, the burden of proof would be much different and give the Martin family attorneys the chance for a win.
“If they got over the procedural hurdle [of immunity], I wouldn’t say that it would be impossible,” Hutchinson said. “I still think it’s difficult, given the lack of evidence we have in the case and the main eyewitness against him [Martin] being dead.” Who was the eyewitness in the OJ case??
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:05 AM   #6459
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dresta
Seriously, anyone that thinks Zimmerman should have been found guilty has not the slightest clue about the law and the legal process. This was a clear-cut case of self-defence, and certainly had nothing to do with race. The only person that should be facing charges now is that disgraceful and lying prosecutor.

The prosecution was weak and I thought he would get off because of that. They did not go at Zim as an incredible liar, who told lies in every critical part of his story.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:09 AM   #6460
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

A grown ass man who wants to be a self appointed security force got his ass beat by a teenager. How incredibly lame is that? Dude should be bitch slapped for being a *****.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:16 AM   #6461
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

@ nothing to do with race.

The moment Zim approached him it became about race.



How complex is that to understand?


There's so much shit that needs to be addressed here, I hope it goes to trial again.

Shit that doesn't make any sense.

If he's fearing for his life and is being ground and pounded, how was he able to reach for his gun and kill him?

Now, Tray was a skinny kid while Zim was at least 180-ish. Zim not only trains in MMA he's been a security guard in the past. How did he get grounded and pounded and he fear for his life? yet the evidence proves otherwise?

If we're to believe that Tray was going towards Zim's gun, how did Tray even know he had a gun?

Again… how was he able to get out the gun and shoot him if he's being grounded and pounded? if it was as bad as he said it was why wasn't he beat up worse? has anybody seen somebody really get beat up? their face would look alot worse if their life was in danger, and they wouldn't be able to not only reach for the gun, but actually get it out and shoot it.

Perhaps some of you can explain this.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:21 AM   #6462
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
A grown ass man who wants to be a self appointed security force got his ass beat by a teenager. How incredibly lame is that? Dude should be bitch slapped for being a *****.

A grown ass man that trains in MMA, has security experience and outweighs him by at least 30 pounds.

It also amazes me how people immediately wanna point out to Tray's wanna be thug Facebook page and comments, while ignoring the FACTS.

Zim was fired from a security job for being too aggressive.
He's been charged with beating up his gf on different occasions.
He's been referred as being Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide, a man that would snap and become very aggressive and violent even towards his friends.
This is a man that was charged with chasing a man in the freeway.

Plain and simple the man had a history and record of being violent, a hot head, superiority complex. These are the FACTS

Tray is a wannabe 17 year old that could be the majority of us at that same age
Zim is a man with a record for violence

But of course, none of that matters.

I wouldn't be surprised if more stories come out now that he's been cleared.

Last edited by andgar923 : 07-15-2013 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:30 AM   #6463
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
I hope it goes to trial again.

you fggts just can't get over it eh lol .. he had his day in court .. his peers found him not guilty .. wtf do you think you live ? you think this some sharia law shit where you just do wtf you want ? lol .. we don't live in a 3rd world shithole(not yet anyways) .. you can't be trying someone here over and over again .. gtfoh with that shit .. double jeopardy exists for a reason .. and fk those cases that have been tried again .. those are bs and unconstitutional ..

and fk the doj .. they're not bringing any charges .. the fbi cleared him of any racial profiling .. the doj has nothing to charge him on .. gz had has much 'civil rights' as tm .. he was attacked and defended himself .. the end

Last edited by dude77 : 07-15-2013 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:31 AM   #6464
daily
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

OK lets help you out with this, my answers will be in bolded within your post. I'm not yelling at you so don't get scared


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
Care to point out some inconsistencies then? I know you won't because you never back up anything you say, but one day you might show your virtual intelligence here - why not today???

WASHINGTON — It’s extremely unlikely George Zimmerman will pay a civil fine for killing Trayvon Martin, according to lawyers in Florida and other legal experts. One Florida law professor said he’d be “stunned” if a federal prosecution of Zimmerman goes ahead. So did he use civil fine to mean civil rights???
No he means Civil fine, he's talking about two different cases, A civil case as in martins family suing Zimmerman and a federal Civil Rights violation type of case. A civil fine is when you lose a civil suit, the "fine is the amount the plaintiffs are awarded. The second half is self explanatory, he said he'd be stunned if the feds bring a suit against Zimmerman


“Technically, there can still be a civil case,” said Tamara Rice Lave, a professor of criminal law at the University of Miami and a former San Diego public defender. “However, Stand Your Ground is going to preclude that.”

At the start of his trial, Zimmerman waived the right to have a judge determine he was immune from prosecution in the Martin shooting under to Stand Your Ground, which says people can use deadly force rather than flee a situation where they feel their lives are in danger. After his acquittal, Zimmerman can rely on getting that immunity in a civil case, Lave said. So he can rely on the immunity he waived???
Yes he didn't waive it for all legal proceedings just the one he was facing at the time. If another legal action is brought against him he can ask for Stand Your Ground immunity and having just been acquitted in a self defense case there's a very good chance he would recieve the immunity

“One of the things that Stand Your Ground does, is it says that if you prove by a preponderance of the evidence, which is 51%, that you acted lawfully under Stand Your Ground you can’t be prosecuted criminally sued civilly, and he’s just gotten a not guilty verdict,” she said. “And so it’s pretty clear he’s going to win that.” So tell us, winning a self defense case is the equivalent to winning a Stand Your ground case. The two can be taken as one? Do you think the two are equal?
See Above.

“It’s still hard, given a acquittal, to win in a civil case,” he said. He noted that if Zimmerman doesn’t get immunity under Stand Your Ground, the burden of proof would be much different and give the Martin family attorneys the chance for a win.
“If they got over the procedural hurdle [of immunity], I wouldn’t say that it would be impossible,” Hutchinson said. “I still think it’s difficult, given the lack of evidence we have in the case and the main eyewitness against him [Martin] being dead.” Who was the eyewitness in the OJ case??
Apples and Oranges OJ was in California, Zimmerman is in Florida, two different states with two different views on things. California has a very low burden of proof in Civil cases, You don't need much proof to bring action against an individual and there's no such thing as "reasonable doubt" for juries to overcome

Last edited by daily : 07-15-2013 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:34 AM   #6465
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
A grown ass man that trains in MMA, has security experience and outweighs him by at least 30 pounds.

It also amazes me how people immediately wanna point out to Tray's wanna be thug Facebook page and comments, while ignoring the FACTS.

Zim was fired from a security job for being too aggressive.
He's been charged with beating up his gf on different occasions.
He's been referred as being Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide, a man that would snap and become very aggressive and violent even towards his friends.
This is a man that was charged with chasing a man in the freeway.

Plain and simple the man had a history and record of being violent, a hot head, superiority complex. These are the FACTS

Tray is a wannabe 17 year old that could be the majority of us at that same age
Zim is a man with a record for violence

But of course, none of that matters.

I wouldn't be surprised if more stories come out now that he's been cleared.
Andgar I could just as easily paint a bad picture of trayvon too.. he has texts stating 'Nah he didnt bleed enough for me' answering his girl telling him not to fight some kid again. Texts talking about weed and lean, getting suspended from school, multiple tats in HS.. where was this kid really headed in life? Because he seemed like one dumb ignorant motherfvcker based off everything thats been presented about him.

He was no doubt a punk. Thats just fact. Not because hes black either. If some white kid with a history of school suspensions, heavier drug use, tatted up young, fighting etc. hed be considered a damn punk. He has all the characteristics. Everyone knew the kids in HS that were like that and they were usually some of the biggest losers afterwards.

All this doesnt mean he deserved to die.. but his character is definitely in question just as much as Zims.

Saying Zim had a record of violence So did trayvonn, and trayvonn CLEARLY was the one that exerted violence on Zim first. Trayvonn didnt have any marks on his face. He was never punched. Zim was and had blood dripping from several places all down the front and back of his head. Those are the damn facts. All you offer is race baiting and baseless, unprovable speculation.
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