Fun fact: The gap between MJ and Wilt's era is now the same as 'Wiggins' to MJ era

[CavaliersFTW]

12 NBA seasons separated Wilt's retirement and MJ's rookie season... now 12 NBA seasons separate MJ's (final) retirement and Wiggins rookie season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

[kennethgriffin]

not really an accurate way for judging change since it took 100,000 years for humans to learn how to build anything beyond rubbing sticks and stones together to make fire


in the last 100 years we've invented more things than we have in all the meleniums prior to that combined

evolution is in no way shape or form unison/clockwork/equal

[CavaliersFTW]

not really an accurate way for judging change since it took 100,000 years for humans to learn how to build anything beyond rubbing sticks and stones together to make fire


in the last 100 years we've invented more things than we have in all the meleniums prior to that

evolution is in no way shape or form unison/clockwork/equal

so long as rules remain in place that keep the game more or less the same yes, it's a very fair comparison. Technology = / = Athletes

[Soundwave]

12 NBA seasons separated Wilt's retirement and MJ's rookie season... now 12 NBA seasons separate MJ's (final) retirement and Wiggins rookie season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

While that's true, the leap forward isn't as dramatic simply because professional sports became a bonafied billion dollar industry in the 1980s with big sponsorship TV deals.

All that money leads to teams being highly incentive to develop, coach, scout, etc. better and eventually you hit a saturation point where you're not seeing such huge improvements in the game.

There are no more countries left for example where a scout could go to find untapped potential really (uhhh ... North Korea I guess?) ... every scout knows what most other scouts know.

There's no magic offensive/defensive schemes that really catch anyone off guard anymore either. Everyone video scouts each other to death.

I have to agree with kennethgriffin (lol, first time ever) ... evolution doesn't happen at a standardized rate.

[ralph_i_el]

not really an accurate way for judging change since it took 100,000 years for humans to learn how to build anything beyond rubbing sticks and stones together to make fire


in the last 100 years we've invented more things than we have in all the meleniums prior to that combined

evolution is in no way shape or form unison/clockwork/equal

actually....props. Kenneth with the insight this is a new feeling

[CavaliersFTW]

While that's true, the leap forward isn't as dramatic simply because professional sports became a bonafied billion dollar industry in the 1980s with big sponsorship TV deals.

All that money leads to teams being highly incentive to develop, coach, scout, etc. better and eventually you hit a saturation point where you're not seeing such huge improvements in the game.

There are no more countries left for example where a scout could go to find untapped potential really (uhhh ... North Korea I guess?) ... every scout knows what most other scouts know.

There's no magic offensive/defensive schemes that really catch anyone off guard anymore either. Everyone video scouts each other to death.

I have to agree with kennethgriffin (lol, first time ever) ... evolution doesn't happen at a standardized rate.

Read about the history of the game, the organizations that competed say, BEFORE the money was big... were pure competitors. They wanted to win at all costs, and sent scouts all over the country and turned over every rock to find what they needed and develop who they needed to develop just the same. The best players and talent that have ever played are a result of competitiveness, not money. And all players that played say, before the 1970's, were pure competitors that would have been playing regardless of the size of their checks. Can the same even be said today? I wouldn't try to use money as a means to prop up this era when one could turn it right back around as a negative. Competitiveness and a drive to find and develop the best players on the planet has always existed in the NBA.

[STATUTORY]

progress isn't linear

[fpliii]

Pretty much, and the gap is bigger IMO in these past 12 years than the Wilt-MJ gap from watching tape...the influx of international players, elimination of illegal defense/Thibs innovating, utilization of spacing/3pt line, etc.

This isn't to say MJ isn't the best ever...he very well might be. The game just looks so much different now than it did, for better or worse.

I don't know how I feel about the present game. I love watching NBA regardless of the changes, but it seems like games from the late 60s/70s/80s/early 90s are a different sport at times.

[Soundwave]

Read about the history of the game, the organizations that competed say, BEFORE the money was big... were pure competitors. They wanted to win at all costs, and sent scouts all over the country and turned over every rock to find what they needed and develop who they needed to develop just the same. The best players and talent that develops are a result of competitiveness, not money. Competitiveness has always existed in the sport.

People are still competitive today. The average coaching staff just has access to thousands of hours of video footage on other teams/individual players/advanced stats, flat out better training, etc.

You don't get a cookie for being competitive, you have to competitive in any pro sports league or you won't last more than a week.

Television has massively changed the game too ... because of the explosion of TV sports it exposed millions of more people to basketball and basketball marketing ("propaganda"), expanding the potential talent pool for the sport several times over.

But this type of thing only happens once, you can't continually keep expanding the talent pool for players, eventually you hit a point where TV/Nike marketing can only have so much of an impact.

[STATUTORY]

Read about the history of the game, the organizations that competed say, BEFORE the money was big... were pure competitors. They wanted to win at all costs, and sent scouts all over the country and turned over every rock to find what they needed and develop who they needed to develop just the same. The best players and talent that have ever played are a result of competitiveness, not money. And all players that played say, before the 1970's, were pure competitors that would have been playing regardless of the size of their checks. Can the same even be said today? I wouldn't try to use money as a means to prop up this era when one could turn it right back around as a negative. Competitiveness and a drive to find and develop the best players on the planet has always existed in the NBA.

wilt fans believe in mountain lions but not economics

[RoundMoundOfReb]

not really an accurate way for judging change since it took 100,000 years for humans to learn how to build anything beyond rubbing sticks and stones together to make fire


in the last 100 years we've invented more things than we have in all the meleniums prior to that combined

evolution is in no way shape or form unison/clockwork/equal

Going by this analogy wilt and mj would be closer than mj and wiggins

[kennethgriffin]

[CavaliersFTW]

Translation:

"Jordan era was best era... cause I grew up watching him play"

[Soundwave]

Basketball took a quantum leap forward from the 60s-late 80s ... there's just too many things that happened during that time that are one time changes that can't be replicated again.

The advent of the "black superstar" - Before the 60s there were no black stars in the NBA. Because the league wasn't integrated. Russell and Chamberlain were the first, they were so much better/bigger/more athletic than the median (white) NBA player that the other teams had to adapt and allow more black players into the game. This then increases the overall athleticism of the game completely revolutionizing the way the sport is played. By the ABA merger in the 70s, it's a completely different sport from the 1950s, just 20 years prior.

The advent of big money TV/sponsorship takes basketball to a fanbase of thousands into the millions. Kids like Kobe Bryant and LeBron James and Dirk Nowitzki grow up inundated with constant TV footage of their favorite players (even in Italy or Germany). Being a basketball player changes from being a "pro athlete" to really being a famous rock star/movie star megamillionaire. The incentive to want to make the NBA goes up several levels.

As basketball becomes a big business sport, the stakes for success rise for everyone. Not just the NBA, but NCAA college is a big business now too. The incentive to find and develop talent better from a younger age, changing coach techniques.

Players like Jordan, Gervin, and Dr. J revolutionize the concept of guard play, this gets married to monster marketing campaigns that appeal to young players greatly.

The fall of the Soviet bloc/USSR in the early 90s allows for a huge influx of European players that wouldn't be able to play before. The NBA Dream Team in 1992, while largely basically just a marketing campaign is a PR slam dunk for the NBA, taking basketball to its highest global scale.


All these things radically changed the sport. But IMO there haven't been many "revolutions" since them. Tom Thibodeau's "different spacing" or Allen Iverson wearing shorts 4 sizes too big isn't a revolution in the game, lol.

[kennethgriffin]

Translation:

"Jordan era was best era... cause I grew up watching him play"

lol wtf i hate jordan

and i rated the 80's as the best ( mainly the late 80's i'd say )

it was the apex of tallent evolution/player evolution before the 90's expansion

then 00's diluting of fundimentals

notice the dip starts after the 80's

that was the toughest era by far IMO and i was born in 1984. could only see footage. no affiliation whatsoever


until the league gets back down to around 20-22 teams the league will continue to suffer and we'l never be able to get back up to where they were