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Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Originally Posted by Jackass18
It obviously shut you up because you can't do anything but mindlessly ramble. That's the problem with discussing anything about Mike Tyson. Too much fanboyism. No thought put into anything defending him, just "I love Mike Tyson so he'd win every fight!!!"
Tyson's prime didn't last long, but it's made up for with his activity level. Prior to his incarceration, he compiled a 41-1-0 (36 KOs) record over the course of just seven years. You can cite the lack of greats all day long, but the blame certainly doesn't fall on Tyson, who was fighting the best opposition available to him. Need proof? Here's the rating of several fighters he fought during his prime at the time he fought them, not including himself obviously: Trevor Berbick (31-4, #1), Bonecrusher Smith (19-5, #1), Pinklon Thomas (29-1, #1), Tony Tucker (34-0, #1), Tyrell Biggs (15-0, #8 ), Michael Spinks (31-0, Lineal claimant), Carl Williams (22-2, #2), James Douglas (29-4, #7), Razor Ruddock x2 (25-1, #1). He also took care of Frank Bruno (32-2) as a mandatory, who had been and would again be a top-rated heavyweight and future titlist, beat the hell out of Tubbs (24-1) inside two for a large payday in Tokyo, who'd give prime Riddick Bowe all sorts of a fight long afterwards; Alex Stewart (26-1) inside of a round, whom was never on the canvas against Holyfield (and would go the distance with in a second fight) and lost a close decision to Foreman afterwards.
People continually bring up Spinks the LHW and Holmes the washed up ATG and refuse to acknowledge a few key points here. Spinks beat an undefeated Larry Holmes at Heavyweight convincingly the first go-round, who while no longer prime, was again: undefeated. He's not exactly John Ruiz, folks. Second, it was at the time an absolute public demand that Tyson fight Spinks and The RING had recognized him as the Top Heavyweight until Tyson beat him. A good number of people in and around boxing actually gave him a fair chance to win the damn fight. To see his performance ravaged by revisionist historians is pretty dispicable.
As far as Holmes, there is quite a lot made about his 21-month lay off between Spinks II and Tyson. He didn't willingly retire so much as he was basically forced into it, partly by his own hand with the comments he made. There's little doubt he won and was screwed out of the Spinks re-match and it left a bitter taste in his mouth. Perhaps the case for it being a worthless win would have credibility if Holmes hadn't decided to come back four years later at 42 and put a schooling on Ray Mercer to EARN himself a title shot against Holyfield, whom he won several rounds against and went the distance with, ditto for Oliver McCall at the age of 44. Nobody stopped or KO'ed Larry Holmes before or after, much less within four rounds.
Don't think there's ever been a 215-220 lb fighter more coordinated or who moved so fluidly. He was not up against men of much more similar physical dimensions as the lower weights and he was never going to be able to put on back-foot boxing clinics against world-rated heavyweights. That's only a recipe for defeat and runs the risk of possibly getting himself KTFO in that division. He was cursed to be a come-forward, aggressive natured fighter. It was obviously not a philosophy of his to use his face as a mode of defense and he often effectively jabbed his way in, slipped and countered shots to near perfection, used a variety of angles and planes of movement to create openings, simultaneously able to shuffle his feet quickly into position to gain full leverage on his combinations to the body and head. His defense I do believe was slightly overstated, if energy wasting and used as a tool to get himself into his mid-range sweet spot but it's hard to argue it's effectiveness up through his first 35-37 fights over which he cleaned out most of the division. I think Mike's aggressive style, work rate, effective defense, good chin and lightning quick hands make him just as adept to taking wide points decisions as the next guy and it happened on a few ocassions. He was the P4P #1 fighter in his time for a reason.
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Bringer of Rain
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Originally Posted by Edwin
tyson would maul rampage in a street fight. tyson comes from a clear boxing background. rampage comes from an mma background on wrestling. if this were a street fight, they'd most likely be throwing punches and tyson has the advantage there.
For ****s sake??
- has MMA not taught us anything the past 15+ years...
- The fighter that trains and knows how to fight in all areas will have a much superior advantage...
- Of course Mike Tyson was a better boxer....But Rampage is a better fighter in more areas...
In a fight on a "street" or anywhere else you most likely will start standing up....but if Mike Tyson throws a left hook and doesn't KO Rampage.....then Rampage easily takes him down and gets in a solid top position and R@pes Tyson...knowing what your doing on top/bottom will negate someone trying eye gouge or bite.
if someones trying to bite you while you have mount...you could elbow until the cows come home
- in a situation like that you gonna do what you know best...Rampage absolutely knows how to clinch / dirty box and get a take down...
all Tyson has is a prayer of hitting page on the first strike...after that Page by anything he wants.
- Boxing is one small aspect of fighting (throwing punches)....Page has trained and is better at "fighting" then Tyson...
- since both are similar in size..Page has an extreme advantage.
- someone mentioned Toney vs Couture......Randy got mount very easily...Page could easily do the same...and Page is much more dangerous on top.
and to the idiots who say Page doesn't like Takedowns.....he was a top shelf wrestler in highschool...but he's not a great submission fighter....he has said many times he likes to fight MMA and try to KO his opponent on his feet to put on a good show.....
but I bet in a real fight (especially against a great boxer) he wouldn't be worried about a show...only surviving.
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#Knickstape
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Originally Posted by Jackass18
It obviously shut you up because you can't do anything but mindlessly ramble. That's the problem with discussing anything about Mike Tyson. Too much fanboyism. No thought put into anything defending him, just "I love Mike Tyson so he'd win every fight!!!"
you shut me up? W/e bro.
Yes me telling you to relax and that its not a crime for me to back Tyson in a theoretical fight w/ Rampage (keyword = theoretical) equals me mindlessly rambling.
And yes me telling you that I believe Tyson would win based on his superior skill/explosiveness in punching, and power in said punches especially against an opponent who despite his ability in taking the fight to the ground, has the mindset to slug it out equals me putting no thought into defending him.
And according to you I've apparently stated that I love Tyson and that nobody could beat him. Apparently, siding against Rampage = I think Tyson is unbeatable.
Dude you're a trip. Sit back, and reassess how you've been responding. You sound like your username. An awfully butthurt one at that.
Last edited by ClutchOver9000; 09-06-2012 at 12:37 AM.
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Bringer of Rain
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Originally Posted by ClutchOver9000
you shut me up? W/e bro.
Yes me telling you to relax and that its not a crime for me to back Tyson in a theoretical fight w/ Rampage (keyword = theoretical) equals me mindlessly rambling.
And yes me telling you that I believe Tyson would win based on his superior skill/explosiveness in punching, and power in said punches especially against an opponent who despite his ability in taking the fight to the ground, has the mindset to slug it out equals me putting no thought into defending him.
And according to you I've apparently stated that I love Tyson and that nobody could beat him. Apparently, siding against Rampage = I think Tyson is unbeatable.
Dude you're a trip. Sit back, and reassess how you've been responding. You sound like your username. An awfully butthurt one at that.
- If Rampage looked and saw Tyson trying to uppercut him....I guarantee you he would not "try to slug it out"
- Page would
oh that's right...all he likes to do is brawl
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#Knickstape
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Last edited by ClutchOver9000; 09-06-2012 at 01:32 AM.
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NBA Superstar
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Tyson, his skills would translate better to a street fight, and I think he's on a completely different level as a fighter.
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Decent playground baller
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
rampage doesn't use takedowns anymore or offensive wrestling anymore. he mainly relies on keeping the fight standing. that's why i said that about rampage.
sure that bader slam is recent, but that's the only time i think he went for a takedown in his ufc run.
of course anyone who's rampage's ufc fights would know this.
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Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
rampage would be too scared to even fight tyson.
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NBA sixth man of the year
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Originally Posted by Edwin
rampage doesn't use takedowns anymore or offensive wrestling anymore. he mainly relies on keeping the fight standing. that's why i said that about rampage.
sure that bader slam is recent, but that's the only time i think he went for a takedown in his ufc run.
of course anyone who's rampage's ufc fights would know this.
The OP said primes. That's like saying Tyson has no heart anymore, he'll revert to earbiting.
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NBA sixth man of the year
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Originally Posted by eliteballer
Tyson, his skills would translate better to a street fight, and I think he's on a completely different level as a fighter.
How does a fighter who's one dimensional translate better into a street fight compared to somebody who's trained on all aspects of fighting?
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Decent playground baller
Re: Prime Rampage Jackson vs Prime Mike Tyson
Originally Posted by DaHeezy
The OP said primes. That's like saying Tyson has no heart anymore, he'll revert to earbiting.
missed that part, my bad.
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