Is Kevin Durant above Tracy McGrady in the all-time list?

[brisbaneman]

at his best, mcgrady was a far better player than durant. durant on the other hand has much better teammates.

[brisbaneman]

but mcgrady and rockets should have beat dallas in 04-05 and utah in 06-07

[The_Yearning]

Listen, only person comparable to prime T-Mac was a prime Kobe.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I would say Tmac was so unstoppable that his career TS% in the post-season was 51.7% McGrady is one of the most overrated playoff performers of all-time. People love to talk about how he is a good playoff performer because of his high playoff ppg career average, yet most people don't realize that he hasn't played any games (never got past the 1st round) and was shooting horribly inefficient in each of those playoff series for the most part

The only year his TS% was mediocre in the playoffs was '01. And that was vs a poor defensive team, but he also averaged 34/7/8 and defended Glenn Robinson very well. I don't remember anyone calling that performance poor and the Bucks were loaded with offensive talent(Ray, Cassell, Robinson, Tim Thomas) and a 52 win team so the loss is to be expected.

Other than that, his TS% in his prime playoff series were.

'02- 31/6/6, 46 FG%, 55 TS%
'03- 32/7/5, 45 FG%, 56 TS%
'05- 31/7/7, 46 FG%, 56 TS%

His total playoff numbers from '01-'05 were 31.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 6.1 apg, 3.3 TO, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg, 44.5 FG%, 54.1 TS%

but mcgrady and rockets should have beat dallas in 04-05 and utah in 06-07

Should've beaten Dallas? I don't know, Dallas was seeded higher, and T-Mac played much better than the Mavs star Dirk in that series, hile giving him trouble when he guarded him.

Houston should've won in '07, I agree. In fact, they should've went to at least the WCF, but T-Mac was already not the player he had been in his prime, and Yao certainly didn't play as well as he could've vs Utah either(who were a really bad match up for Yao). I do remember cringing when Derek Fisher was able to guard McGrady in that '07 series without McGrady murdering him, T-Mac had 6-7 inches on him and really settled.

[brisbaneman]

The only year his TS% was mediocre in the playoffs was '01. And that was vs a poor defensive team, but he also averaged 34/7/8 and defended Glenn Robinson very well. I don't remember anyone calling that performance poor and the Bucks were loaded with offensive talent(Ray, Cassell, Robinson, Tim Thomas) and a 52 win team so the loss is to be expected.

Other than that, his TS% in his prime playoff series were.

'02- 31/6/6, 46 FG%, 55 TS%
'03- 32/7/5, 45 FG%, 56 TS%
'05- 31/7/7, 46 FG%, 56 TS%

His total playoff numbers from '01-'05 were 31.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 6.1 apg, 3.3 TO, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg, 44.5 FG%, 54.1 TS%



Should've beaten Dallas? I don't know, Dallas was seeded higher, and T-Mac played much better than the Mavs star Dirk in that series, hile giving him trouble when he guarded him.

Houston should've won in '07, I agree. In fact, they should've went to at least the WCF, but T-Mac was already not the player he had been in his prime, and Yao certainly didn't play as well as he could've vs Utah either(who were a really bad match up for Yao). I do remember cringing when Derek Fisher was able to guard McGrady in that '07 series without McGrady murdering him, T-Mac had 6-7 inches on him and really settled.

the dallas matchup was 4-5 and like you said mcgrady guarded dirk better than anyone has ever guarded the almighty.

also they won the first 2 in dallas and promptly got their asses handed to them the next 3 games. and dirk's supporting cast was pretty weak (jason terry, old stackhouse, 2nd year daniels and josh howard) and yao was murdering dampier.

[StateOfMind12]

The only year his TS% was mediocre in the playoffs was '01. And that was vs a poor defensive team, but he also averaged 34/7/8 and defended Glenn Robinson very well. I don't remember anyone calling that performance poor and the Bucks were loaded with offensive talent(Ray, Cassell, Robinson, Tim Thomas) and a 52 win team so the loss is to be expected.

Well like I said a lot of people think Tmac's playoff performances are great just because he averaged a lot of points but they don't look at how inefficient he was.

And if he a shot a poor TS% against a poor defensive team then doesn't that make it worse?

Other than that, his TS% in his prime playoff series were.

'02- 31/6/6, 46 FG%, 55 TS%
'03- 32/7/5, 45 FG%, 56 TS%
'05- 31/7/7, 46 FG%, 56 TS%

His total playoff numbers from '01-'05 were 31.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 6.1 apg, 3.3 TO, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg, 44.5 FG%, 54.1 TS%

I was actually just referring to his overall/career playoff performances, not just his prime ones.

Should've beaten Dallas? I don't know, Dallas was seeded higher, and T-Mac played much better than the Mavs star Dirk in that series, hile giving him trouble when he guarded him.

They should have beaten Dallas if you looked at the circumstances. They won the first two games at Dallas, so they had a commanding 2-0 lead coming back to Houston. Tmac and the Rockets then lost three straight games, game 3, 4, and 5 and they were down 2-3. I would have to say that is pretty much choking.

Houston should've won in '07, I agree. In fact, they should've went to at least the WCF, but T-Mac was already not the player he had been in his prime, and Yao certainly didn't play as well as he could've vs Utah either(who were a really bad match up for Yao). I do remember cringing when Derek Fisher was able to guard McGrady in that '07 series without McGrady murdering him, T-Mac had 6-7 inches on him and really settled.

Maybe I remember a little too much about McGrady in his Rockets years but these moments defined him as a loser in my opinion. He finally had the talent to win and at least get past the 1st round and he still couldn't do it. He might have been able to do it with talent back in Orlando but what he did in Houston says a lot to me.

Tmac has blown a lot of playoff series in his career (e.g. '03, '05, and '07 playoffs.)

In '03, he blew a 3-1 lead and Tmac started to act cocky saying it was nice to finally get out of the 1st round and then lose the next 3 games and lose the series

It is pretty funny since the '03 series was the 1st time in NBA history that 1st round playoff series were 7 game series instead of 5.

I already explained '05. They were up 2-0 coming back to Houston and then they lose 3 straight games, win game 6, and then get completely blown out in Game 7. McGrady's performance in that Game 7 was pathetic too. There were many that thought McGrady quit.

In '07, Rockets had HCA in the series and they start out 2-0 in the series. The series goes back to Houston tied up at 2-2 with Utah winning both of their games at home. Houston win the game 5, so the series is 3-2 and the Rockets could win the series if they win in either game 6 or game 7. The Rockets eventually blew these two games and lost the series and it was the only time Tmac ever had a 3-2 lead in a playoff series.

[ShaqAttack3234]

the dallas matchup was 4-5 and like you said mcgrady guarded dirk better than anyone has ever guarded the almighty.

also they won the first 2 in dallas and promptly got their asses handed to them the next 3 games. and dirk's supporting cast was pretty weak (jason terry, old stackhouse, 2nd year daniels and josh howard) and yao was murdering dampier.

Well, when it comes to supporting casts, I think it's worth pointing out that if T-Mac clearly had the better playoff series than Dirk(this was one of Dirk's few poor series and maybe his worst outside of Golden State) and Dallas still beat Houston that in this particular series, T-Mac didn't have the supporting cast advantage.

Yao was obviously a lot better than Dampier and a better player than any of Dirk's teammates at that point, but he was in foul trouble quite a bit in that series.

It may have been a 4-5 match up, but Dallas did win 58 games while Houston won 51.

Well like I said a lot of people think Tmac's playoff performances are great just because he averaged a lot of points but they don't look at how inefficient he was.

Well, again, it depends on the year.

And if he a shot a poor TS% against a poor defensive team then doesn't that make it worse?

I was just saying that it wasn't a poor series, the only thing that was poor about his series was his TS%, imo.

While he had a good TS% in '02 and had a worse series than '01, imo vs a team he could've beaten easier than the Bucks. Though his '02 series wasn't bad, imo, he could've played better in crunch time and the Hornets without Mashburn were a beatable team. But with Mike Miller's injury, Orlando's cast was complete trash, so that has to be considered.

I was actually just referring to his overall/career playoff performances, not just his prime ones.

Oh, I'm more or less talking about how good prime T-Mac. He just wasn't the same player to me after '05. I will say that he played great from about January on in '07 and as I acknowledged he should've played better vs Utah.

They should have beaten Dallas if you looked at the circumstances. They won the first two games at Dallas, so they had a commanding 2-0 lead coming back to Houston. Tmac and the Rockets then lost three straight games, game 3, 4, and 5 and they were down 2-3. I would have to say that is pretty much choking.

Sort of, T-Mac has had some disappointing game 7s, but when they were down 3-2, he had a great game 6 to extend the series to 7. It's kind of a mixed bag with him in that regard. They did blow the lead and got killed in game 7, but he also had a great elimination game to extend the series overall.

Maybe I remember a little too much about McGrady in his Rockets years but these moments defined him as a loser in my opinion. He finally had the talent to win and at least get past the 1st round and he still couldn't do it. He might have been able to do it with talent back in Orlando but what he did in Houston says a lot to me.

I do agree that there's negatives about McGrady and traits that make you question whether he was a real winner such as his own admission about his talent making his work ethic worse, his admission to not trying as hard in '04 and there are some moments to back it up.

I don't think there was a series that he could've been expected to win with his rosters from 2001-2005, but I'll say they could've won in '02, '03 and '05 considering the position they were in and T-Mac could've played better at certain times. But I don't consider him a playoff choker.

'07 is a negative to me as well when looking at overall career, I mostly judge by prime, but that was close to his prime, and a series that he could've got it done. He played ok, but they needed him to be more aggressive offensively and he didn't do it, so I'll concede that.

[StateOfMind12]

ShaqAttack, I have nothing to argue with in your post. It seems like we both agree and disagree in certain points but for the most part we are on the same page.

How many more elite seasons do you think Durant will have to have in order to surpass Tmac, or is it not the seasons that matters but just his style of play? If you look at both of their careers and accomplishments, Durant has already surpassed Tmac and I think it is hard to argue against that.

You mentioned TS% earlier about how in Tmac's time it was a different and tougher league to score in, so I just wanted to show you the TS% comparison to the league average at the time.

I got it from this thread....

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=239585

The +/- show their TS% compared to the league average of TS%.

Tracy McGrady TS% from '00 to '08

'00-'01 Tmac: 52.1% +0.3
'01-'02 Tmac: 53.2% +1.2
'02-'03 Tmac: 56.4% +4.5
'03-'04 Tmac: 52.6% +0.6
'04-'05 Tmac: 52.6% -0.4
'05-'06 Tmac: 49.4% -4.1
'06-'07 Tmac: 51.5% -2.6
'07-'08 Tmac: 48.7% -5.3

Kevin Durant TS% from '08 to '11 (using '11 since Durant's '11-'12 stats will change on any given night)

'08-'09 Durant: 57.7% +3.2
'09-'10 Durant: 60.7% +6.4
'10-'11 Durant: 58.9% +4.7


I'll do the same for eFG% between the two as well.


Tracy McGrady eFG% from '00 to '08

'00-'01 Tmac: 47.4% +0.1
'01-'02 Tmac: 48.3% +0.6
'02-'03 Tmac: 50.5% +3.2
'03-'04 Tmac: 47.3% +0.2
'04-'05 Tmac: 47.3% -0.9
'05-'06 Tmac: 44.2% -4.7
'06-'07 Tmac: 47.4% -2.2
'07-'08 Tmac: 45.2% -4.6

Kevin Durant eFG% from '08 to '11

'08-'09 Durant: 51.0% +1.1
'09-'10 Durant: 51.4% +1.3
'10-'11 Durant: 53.9% +4.1


I know you never argued otherwise, but it seems like Durant has Tmac beat in efficiency regardless of the era.

[Cali Syndicate]

Maybe....probably...if not now, sooner or later he will.

I enjoyed prime McGrady's game a whole lot more though.

Currently McGrady is putting 16/7/4 at 50% - Solid. Let's go 6th man award.

[Brickz187]

Listen, only person comparable to prime T-Mac was a prime Kobe.

^this is all that needs to be said IMO

[L.Kizzle]

Either way you look at it, one player is a 15 yr vet, the other an up and coming suprstar in his 5th season. So no, he hasn't surpassed 10 years of Macs career. Hell, he hast passed Sprewell or Michael Finley yet. Let KD play some seasons before passing them.

[iDunk]

LOL, are you dumb. Its Durant's 5th season.

[HurricaneKid]

These youngsters have no respect. TMac was a great player. If Grant Hill had stayed healthy he would have been viewed in a similar class as Kobe because that team would have done some things.

As it is his tale is a sad one; his body didn't last as long as we wished it had and when he finally had a solid team around him he was starting to come down off his peak.

IMO he was the best player in the league in 02-03. At least in the conversation with peak Duncan. No one else was close to those two that year including Kobe.

[calvin671996]

You can't stop T-Mac,only can stop him is him. But His scoring don not bring champion to his team.
Durant can score and lead his team to semi-final, he is still young

[ILLsmak]

I'm never going to explain or post stats again.

TMac was better than KD. Not by a lot, but when comparing players that talented... it's a lot. Kind of like winning a 100m sprint by .5 seconds is a lot.

AI and TMac are both amazingly underrated. I like T-Mac but AI deserved a ring more.

-Smak