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Old 11-14-2018, 09:31 PM   #91
mr4speed
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Default Re: Will Durant ever surpass Bird in your eyes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
No they don't. if Russells 11 lands him on zero lists nowadays as the GOAT, and he was the anchor behind his team for a decade....there's no reason why KD frontrunning on a team that won a title before him leapfrogs other all-time greats like that, just because he landed in a situation that's allowed him to collect rings without the same level of accountability as past GOAT tier players. Once again, he's not even consensus considered the best now, after 2 straight titles and FMVPs. If doing that hasn't catapulted him in the public eye over the likes of a 34 year old Lebron whom he just beat in the finals....then amassing a bunch more titles when your team is more stacked than everyone else doesn't move the needle. The people already see him as a frontrunner, that's why few call him the best now.

KD's 'colluding' was also 10 times worse. We need to stop acting like they're remotely the same.

Excellent post! We tend to forget past history. Bird literally put Indiana State on the map and carried that team every year he was there. As a rookie in the NBA he went to a 29 win team and helped turn it around into a 61 win team. In his first 9 seasons he played in 711 games and his Celtics won 534 of those games giving him the highest winning percentage (.751) for 9 seasons of any player ever to play in the NBA. Think about that - Russell, Jordan, Magic, Lebron, etc. nobody has matched that and Bird played in the much tougher Eastern conference. In those 9 seasons he won the ROY and finished 2nd in MVP voting for 4 seasons, won the MVP 3 consecutive years and was 3rd in 1987. He was the first player to ever post a 50-40-90 shooting % for an entire season and he did it 2 years in a row. There was a general acceptance that Bird was the greatest non-center to ever play. After the double heel surgery and back issues, he struggled, and later admitted he played in some games where his feet could not feel the floor. How do you measure heart, desire, will to win, courage and motivating others? Bird excelled at all of those attributes. Lets not forget Bird or other great players who never jumped onto another winning team for what appears to be the purpose of enhancing their legacy.
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:38 PM   #92
mr4speed
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Default Re: Will Durant ever surpass Bird in your eyes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
No they don't. if Russells 11 lands him on zero lists nowadays as the GOAT, and he was the anchor behind his team for a decade....there's no reason why KD frontrunning on a team that won a title before him leapfrogs other all-time greats like that, just because he landed in a situation that's allowed him to collect rings without the same level of accountability as past GOAT tier players. Once again, he's not even consensus considered the best now, after 2 straight titles and FMVPs. If doing that hasn't catapulted him in the public eye over the likes of a 34 year old Lebron whom he just beat in the finals....then amassing a bunch more titles when your team is more stacked than everyone else doesn't move the needle. The people already see him as a frontrunner, that's why few call him the best now.

KD's 'colluding' was also 10 times worse. We need to stop acting like they're remotely the same.

Excellent post! We tend to forget past history. Bird literally put Indiana State on the map and carried that team every year he was there. As a rookie in the NBA he went to a 29 win team and helped turn it around into a 61 win team. In his first 9 seasons he played in 711 games and his Celtics won 534 of those games giving him the highest winning percentage (.751) for 9 seasons of any player ever to play in the NBA. Think about that - Russell, Jordan, Magic, Lebron, etc. nobody has matched that and Bird played in the much tougher Eastern conference. In those 9 seasons he won the ROY and finished 2nd in MVP voting for 4 seasons, won the MVP 3 consecutive years and was 3rd in 1987. He was the first player to ever post a 50-40-90 shooting % for an entire season and he did it 2 years in a row. There was a general acceptance that Bird was the greatest non-center to ever play. After the double heel surgery and back issues, he struggled, and later admitted he played in some games where his feet could not feel the floor. How do you measure heart, desire, will to win, courage and motivating others? Bird excelled at all of those attributes. Lets not forget Bird or other great players who never jumped onto another winning team for what appears to be the purpose of enhancing their legacy.
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:40 PM   #93
PeroAntic
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Default Re: Will Durant ever surpass Bird in your eyes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniec
Is KD a franchise player? NO!!!
He was a sidekick of Westbrook, and now the sidekick of Curry and co.
A scoring machine but never live up to the expectation.

Was Bird a franchise player? YES!!!
A player that is on par with Magic and saved the Celtics franchise by winning 60+ games in his rookie season; and would win 3 rings as the franchise player later on.

I don't know why people want to argue this.

Case closed.

p.s. to dunk the ball, you get 2 points, exactly the same as a deadly mid-range by Bird. You could slash and do a layup instead. I don't see having a "better dunk" is relevant at all.
lol KD is the man in that team. just as he was at OKC. cut that bs.

seriously, this hating bs gotta stop, yeah I dont like the move he made either but in the end it doesnt matter whether he joined Curry or Curry joined him or Pippen grew into a star or whatever. The ethics of it is irrelevant.

Its ridiculous to say Durant has no business in the conversation for GOAT, hes one of the most talented players ever and won everything. But his decision weights on him so he just needs to do a bit more. the question is how much
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:42 PM   #94
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Will Durant ever surpass Bird in your eyes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeroAntic
lol KD is the man in that team. just as he was at OKC. cut that bs.

seriously, this hating bs gotta stop, yeah I dont like the move he made either but in the end it doesnt matter whether he joined Curry or Curry joined him or Pippen grew into a star or whatever. The ethics of it is irrelevant.

Its ridiculous to say Durant has no business in the conversation for GOAT, hes one of the most talented players ever and won everything. But his decision weights on him so he just needs to do a bit more. the question is how much

No, you are over-rating Durant.

He rightfully is in the top 20 or so conversation.

He is not in the GOAT conversation.

Also, Curry is the franchise player on that team...not Durant.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:42 PM   #95
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Default Re: Will Durant ever surpass Bird in your eyes?

I hold value to context.... hence I dont hold that great value to championships obtained by guys who would still WITH GUARANTEE get those championships even if they didnt play....

Does that answer your question?
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:57 PM   #96
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Default Re: Will Durant ever surpass Bird in your eyes?

Warriors were 72-10 and almost 1 play away from being back-to-back championships without KD.... while beating KD... he joined 1 month after... the other team (Cavs) got worse/older... Warriors got just better/in their prime..... Warriors would have won it again and again... WITHOUT Durant again... while beating KD again assuming he stayed in OKC....

KD joining the Warriors is doing nothing but stealing FMVPs away from Curry & Co.... obviously Warriors are better with KD and now Cousins, but its just an overkill to an already existing overkill...

The point is there is no leader/superstar in NBA history at his peak you could legitimatelly say "This guy would still have those rings even if he was on the bench during the entire Finals" about....

His championships dont & should never hold great value in context...

I love KD's game... and still do... never had anything bad to say about him, look it up, but what he did is what it is, impossible to defend, it is the most pathetic move ive ever seen from a superstar... i wont neglect the true significance of his rings with Warriors.

KD is Warriors best player, but a player Warriors did & can win a championship without.... how many "best player of the team" could you say that about in history?

Last edited by pauk : 11-14-2018 at 11:06 PM.
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