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Old 04-13-2010, 02:39 AM   #46
Swaggin916
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by lilojmayo
It is fun, to me its like madden 2010 on kick off returns, but real life. And i never practice it full speed, i go pretty slow when i practice full court speed dribbling and emphasis movement of cuts back and forth and switch hands helps me a lot when i do go full speed in live action.

Yea making good cuts and stuff is more important anyway to get a guy off you. I don't know... it just seems fun to go balls out every now and then lol. Ya it kind of like a kick return good analogy.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:05 PM   #47
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by lilojmayo
i'm a pass first guard. Anytime i have good players on my team particularly a big man my assists are high, like today there was a 6'9 guy pretty good, nothing special just tall at the gym. We ended up on the same team played to 13, I ended up with 8 assists only had 2 buckets. That's how i usually am. The thing is i dont play with many good players so i always score mode even if i pass it they give it right back.

speaking of attacking, you just need to have the right mind set. Usually the defenders that can stay with you are the ones that are overaggressive maybe even handchecking. Combos work only do them once in awhile though, ball stopping is bad basketball. One of the best test i do on how aggressive the defender is, is give them a shot fake, in my mind if he even moves a little i know i am going to have him beat, since i like the ball on the left wing about 18ft out, i shot fake if he moves even a little i know he is an aggressive defender, i then do about 2 or 3 dribbles to the middle, not trying to blow by him since i know he is an aggressive defender then i do another shot fake, and the defender always leave their feet like their actually going to block, rip it through then throw it off the backboard and go get for a layup. Kobe has done this move a few times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3lDZ...eature=related

Now if i shot fake and he doesnt move, i know i am about to launch. Now the hardest defender is the one who just has his hand up contesting. I give him a shot fake if he doesnt move, i might do another shot fake to see if he slipps if he doesnt move, i know i cant get a clean look then you have to go one on one with him.

Another tip is use the pick and roll. try your best to go shoulder to shoulder, because it pins your defender, and leaves the off defender not knowing what to do. one of my favorite pick and roll plays i do is, usually when i am on the wing, i go shoulder to shoulder then my team pops out instead of roll i throw it him then go back behind him and get it and attack, works well very hard to defend in general especially in a pick up game.

Also, dont forget running the breaks, passing a relocating, relocating when some drives. You know your relocating when you find yourself in the deep corners of the baseline 3 quite a bit. you see that all the time in college, nba, not so much in hs and pick up games.

Not going to lie, most of my buckets come from taking it the house going coast to coast on fastbreaks, reckless driving in the halfcourt. Thats probably 70% of my points. but usually at least 1 time where, i have a nice pass and relocate shot attempts, running the wings, and a triple threat type of move usually by getting my d in the air.

Dude that's just like me. I'm shorter and not as heavy so I can't just drive in and bang like it's an official game, cause normally I'd try and draw some fouls so the defense backs off. In pickup though, they'll jump and hack every time so usually I'll linger around the perimeter and maybe drive or else pass if there's no good look.

I'm not bad on the full court, though, I have good acceleration after a couple steps and I can run a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 very well. The defense seems to know I like to pass it though, cause sometimes I find myself taking an awkward layup because I intended to dish.

But yeah creating space is my main issue. My release point on my shot is high relative to my body, but it's low to everyone else. Is there anything I can do to change this? Because many times in games like 1 on 1 (which I hate playing) I'm stuck going against a bigger defender unable to get my shot off or drive effectively.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:49 AM   #48
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by carpevicis
Dude that's just like me. I'm shorter and not as heavy so I can't just drive in and bang like it's an official game, cause normally I'd try and draw some fouls so the defense backs off. In pickup though, they'll jump and hack every time so usually I'll linger around the perimeter and maybe drive or else pass if there's no good look.

I'm not bad on the full court, though, I have good acceleration after a couple steps and I can run a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 very well. The defense seems to know I like to pass it though, cause sometimes I find myself taking an awkward layup because I intended to dish.

But yeah creating space is my main issue. My release point on my shot is high relative to my body, but it's low to everyone else. Is there anything I can do to change this? Because many times in games like 1 on 1 (which I hate playing) I'm stuck going against a bigger defender unable to get my shot off or drive effectively.

Yea, create space At 5'7 you are going to be shorter than virtually everyone you are going against... and with a 7'0 reach... I mean even my 7'7 would probably distract the hell out of you even with a high release. It's much easier to get better at creating space than it is to change your release... usually with release change you end up reverting back to old habits unless somebody is pounding in your head everyday and giving you shit when you don't do it right.

IMO this is the best way to create space to get your jumper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkjKxuH-YiE

As small as you are you might still have to fade though. I'd work on your fade aways because if you can shoot them with good success, then the chances of somebody effecting your shot goes down because fading creates even more space. If you find that you don't need to, then don't fade, but it's good to know you can make em if you need to. Just combine that with a step back, fake, and then drive. Most people like to go for blocks with their dominant hand so if they bite on the fake at all... you can then drive with your dominate hand. Jab fakes and up fakes are always good to start with in triple threat... might as well try to get em off balance with one of those first. If it doesn't work, then you can go to the step back.

One thing with the step back, you have to drive with your weak hand in order for it to work. Hopefully it's not your "weak hand" though and you can drive left just as effectively... but that's the only way the "step back" can work. Personally I give a hard jab right, then go left... if I don't get by him, then I'll go to the step back.

It's just one move, but it's damn effective.

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Old 04-14-2010, 05:57 AM   #49
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by carpevicis
Dude that's just like me. I'm shorter and not as heavy so I can't just drive in and bang like it's an official game, cause normally I'd try and draw some fouls so the defense backs off. In pickup though, they'll jump and hack every time so usually I'll linger around the perimeter and maybe drive or else pass if there's no good look.

I'm not bad on the full court, though, I have good acceleration after a couple steps and I can run a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 very well. The defense seems to know I like to pass it though, cause sometimes I find myself taking an awkward layup because I intended to dish.

But yeah creating space is my main issue. My release point on my shot is high relative to my body, but it's low to everyone else. Is there anything I can do to change this? Because many times in games like 1 on 1 (which I hate playing) I'm stuck going against a bigger defender unable to get my shot off or drive effectively.

Yeah most of my friends we play legit pick up games, but when i play with random ppl it is a hack fest they don't even go for the ball, that's why i play pick up with randoms like once every two weeks usually, just to see where my games at.

1 on 1 height is such a big factor it isnt even funny. The step back is good move, but really have to have a decent jumper at worst for it to be effective unless you completely get the d off balance and you have time to set your feet. I would just advice trying to extent your range to 24 ft out or so, so you can get a good look, it is better than being blocked.

Last edited by lilojmayo : 04-14-2010 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:01 PM   #50
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by Swaggin916
Yea, create space At 5'7 you are going to be shorter than virtually everyone you are going against... and with a 7'0 reach... I mean even my 7'7 would probably distract the hell out of you even with a high release. It's much easier to get better at creating space than it is to change your release... usually with release change you end up reverting back to old habits unless somebody is pounding in your head everyday and giving you shit when you don't do it right.

IMO this is the best way to create space to get your jumper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkjKxuH-YiE

As small as you are you might still have to fade though. I'd work on your fade aways because if you can shoot them with good success, then the chances of somebody effecting your shot goes down because fading creates even more space. If you find that you don't need to, then don't fade, but it's good to know you can make em if you need to. Just combine that with a step back, fake, and then drive. Most people like to go for blocks with their dominant hand so if they bite on the fake at all... you can then drive with your dominate hand. Jab fakes and up fakes are always good to start with in triple threat... might as well try to get em off balance with one of those first. If it doesn't work, then you can go to the step back.

One thing with the step back, you have to drive with your weak hand in order for it to work. Hopefully it's not your "weak hand" though and you can drive left just as effectively... but that's the only way the "step back" can work. Personally I give a hard jab right, then go left... if I don't get by him, then I'll go to the step back.

It's just one move, but it's damn effective.

Yeah I'm good at driving both sides, but one thing I have trouble with and am practicing is pro hop on the left side. I can do it well right side, but on the left side my timing and footwork is all off. I've seen that video and I've tried it a couple times. Usually for that I'll do the same as him, fake up, drive right then push off my left foot (I jump off my left foot so this is natural). I can do that on the right side too. One thing though, is that usually I'm off balance when I pop back out because I'm literally jumping backwards.

For some reason too, the step back is the only way I can shoot it when I drive right. Going left, I can pull up off the dribble, but going right, I have to step back to get my feet set for the shot. Otherwise, I'm leaning to the right. I think it's because of the direction and stuff...

But my biggest problem with the step back being ineffective:

I don't like to shoot the ball, period. Unless it's a wide open, good look, I prefer to drive and pass. This then leads to my shot being underdeveloped. A couple weeks back, I thought I was a bad shooter, but then I realized that it's just because I'm not much of a game shooter, off my own dribble. My form gets all screwed up as I try to shoot over a taller defender, but yet I feel great shooting an open 17 footer.
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:02 PM   #51
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by lilojmayo
Yeah most of my friends we play legit pick up games, but when i play with random ppl it is a hack fest they don't even go for the ball, that's why i play pick up with randoms like once every two weeks usually, just to see where my games at.

1 on 1 height is such a big factor it isnt even funny. The step back is good move, but really have to have a decent jumper at worst for it to be effective unless you completely get the d off balance and you have time to set your feet. I would just advice trying to extent your range to 24 ft out or so, so you can get a good look, it is better than being blocked.

Yeah 1 on 1 is real tough for me. I'm not a scorer naturally (i'm trying to improve on that), but my range isn't good either. For some reason, now that I shoot a little higher, my shot isn't as good from long range. I can drop mid ranges all day if I'm feeling it and I can get the shot off, but from distance, I'm pretty much useless.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:31 AM   #52
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Yeah I'm good at driving both sides, but one thing I have trouble with and am practicing is pro hop on the left side. I can do it well right side, but on the left side my timing and footwork is all off. I've seen that video and I've tried it a couple times. Usually for that I'll do the same as him, fake up, drive right then push off my left foot (I jump off my left foot so this is natural). I can do that on the right side too. One thing though, is that usually I'm off balance when I pop back out because I'm literally jumping backwards.

For some reason too, the step back is the only way I can shoot it when I drive right. Going left, I can pull up off the dribble, but going right, I have to step back to get my feet set for the shot. Otherwise, I'm leaning to the right. I think it's because of the direction and stuff...

But my biggest problem with the step back being ineffective:

I don't like to shoot the ball, period. Unless it's a wide open, good look, I prefer to drive and pass. This then leads to my shot being underdeveloped. A couple weeks back, I thought I was a bad shooter, but then I realized that it's just because I'm not much of a game shooter, off my own dribble. My form gets all screwed up as I try to shoot over a taller defender, but yet I feel great shooting an open 17 footer.

Yea that's what I am saying tho... you really can't execute the step back going right (if you are right handed). You have to actually turn your body and hop back to square up otherwise you will have to fade away be all off balance. If you go left and push off that right foot though you are pretty much square with the basket and it's a natural movement/shot.

Well the way you get your in game shot up is practice in game situations. You can put tall things on the court and then shoot over them to simulate shooting over a taller defender. You just have to get creative and you'll get better. Basketball is fun because there is so much you can experiment with... That is why it is IMO the best game to play.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:19 PM   #53
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Yea that's what I am saying tho... you really can't execute the step back going right (if you are right handed). You have to actually turn your body and hop back to square up otherwise you will have to fade away be all off balance. If you go left and push off that right foot though you are pretty much square with the basket and it's a natural movement/shot.

Well the way you get your in game shot up is practice in game situations. You can put tall things on the court and then shoot over them to simulate shooting over a taller defender. You just have to get creative and you'll get better. Basketball is fun because there is so much you can experiment with... That is why it is IMO the best game to play.

The problem is I just can't get the shot off unless I have a big amount of space because my release can be as high as possible and anyone with an extended arm could still cause trouble. One answer would be more arc, but that won't work. Imagine I'm shooting the ball and you're guarding me. To avoid your hand, I could throw the ball wicked high, but that would require an impossible amount of energy to hit the shot, especially from further out. There's a point where arc becomes redundant to distance, and that arc is what's stopping me from hitting more shots. The way I see it, and tell me if I'm missing anything is I have to work on:

1. Speeding up the shot. The faster I get it off, the closer I can shoot to my defender.
2. Drive so the defense respects that and backs off a little.
3. Develop moves to create space.

Those are the only 3 things I can see helping me with the shot. It's not my form, it's my positioning. It's a chain effect right now because I can't get the shot off so people assume I can't shoot... my rhythm and confidence is down so I can't hit the open shot... I get more open looks but I still can't convert... I'm in a shooting slump.

I'll probably retool my shot tomorrow and try and see what I can fix.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:17 AM   #54
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Also developing a high jump on your shot is another way. A lot of smaller guys I know jump really high on their jumpshots so they can get it off cleanly. When I say really high, I don't mean as high as they can, but they jump higher than most people would.

But yea the quicker the release the harder it is for someone to get a hand on it, and usually you won't think about it at all. A slower release will allow them to get a hand up and it may effect your shot... and yea you have to be a threat to drive. IMO if if anyone is right up on you, then you need to take them to the hole. It doesn't even matter what happens, but nobody like to get beat so if you can beat them once they will think twice about playing up on you so tight (giving you more space to operate/shoot). And then yea as we have talked about, creating space is huge. The better you are at that, the less you will have to tweak the rest of your game. Quite frankly, I would work the most on that because it's going to make you a better athlete... It's going to get you quicker and more agile in short spaces, which is very important in basketball.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:52 AM   #55
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YES. I forgot to put it down, but I NEED to jump higher when I shoot it. I'm not the best jumper but even I know that I'm getting next to 0 lift when I shoot it. I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if I could somehow jump higher while shooting, cause a higher jump is a faster jump which leads to a faster shot, but I can't seem to do it.

Every time I try to add an extra bounce, my form compromises and it feels like I'm throwing the ball up there. I think I'll spend some time just doing form shooting without the ball so I can get the muscle memory down, but do you have any ideas?
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:12 PM   #56
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Practice shooting off the dribble, coming off screens/curls (get a friend to pass it to you), elbow to elbow shooting, fading away towards the baseline, turn-around jumpers where I come baseline, get the pass from the other elbow and shoot in the same motion.

Those are the drills I'm doing currently to improve my shooting in game situations versus just standard spot-up shooting. I feel I've got that down quite well. I'm about 80% from the elbow distance when open and with my feet set and about 65-70% 1 step in from the three. I'm currently working on my three-point shooting. It's only at around 25% and I'm pretty sure it's just in my head. Need to get a better lift from my legs when I shoot threes.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:31 PM   #57
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Well all I know is that you should never feel like you are throwing the ball up there... when you are, it means you are too far away and it compromises your form. For most people it seems like more than a few feet behind the line (NBA line that is) is where their form starts to get spotty.

You should just be extending that elbow and flicking your wrist on a jumpshot... usually if you are used to a set shot a jump shot will take some time to get used to, I found that I was short a lot of the times to begin with (and still even now when I first start prior to getting warmed up). You should make sure you set shot form is good though, and then move onto a jumpshot... cus you will be using the same mechanics you will just be jumping. It's going to feel different, it's probably going to feel uncomfortable, but the more you practice it, the better you will get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVurLfnl1k: I like this video because it shows you what to look at. This is also good for driving too. You basically just look to see which foot is forward, and then you attack that foot. Pretty basic stuff, but you need to get used to it cus it's hard to remember that stuff come gametime. By doing this though, your defender may not even be able to jump when you pull up (because they are off balance) therefore giving you a clean look at the basket.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:12 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Swaggin916
Well all I know is that you should never feel like you are throwing the ball up there... when you are, it means you are too far away and it compromises your form. For most people it seems like more than a few feet behind the line (NBA line that is) is where their form starts to get spotty.

You should just be extending that elbow and flicking your wrist on a jumpshot... usually if you are used to a set shot a jump shot will take some time to get used to, I found that I was short a lot of the times to begin with (and still even now when I first start prior to getting warmed up). You should make sure you set shot form is good though, and then move onto a jumpshot... cus you will be using the same mechanics you will just be jumping. It's going to feel different, it's probably going to feel uncomfortable, but the more you practice it, the better you will get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVurLfnl1k: I like this video because it shows you what to look at. This is also good for driving too. You basically just look to see which foot is forward, and then you attack that foot. Pretty basic stuff, but you need to get used to it cus it's hard to remember that stuff come gametime. By doing this though, your defender may not even be able to jump when you pull up (because they are off balance) therefore giving you a clean look at the basket.

Yeah I like that move because I can take a large dribble and pull up, but it's hard for me to do that on the right side because of the off balance issue I mentioned above. I'd either have to step back or pause and regain balance if I wanted to go straight up.

And for some reason, I've lost the ability to hit even a high school three with my form maintained. I just don't get enough power so too often the ball hits off the front of the rim. Is there any way I can fix this? I've already experimented with different jumping heights but I still can't get anything.

And for free throws, does anyone feel like they're pushing the ball? My free throw is more like a flick with a slight push on it for more power since I don't use my legs as much..
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:21 PM   #59
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Yea to the right I almost never pull up unless I'm coming off a screen... I'll just take it to the rack. I can pull up, I should probably do it more, but yea it just doesn't feel as good because a lot less space is created. To me, unless I have created a good amount of space, then I don't like to shoot because a well contested shot isn't what I'm looking for. I'm looking to create an easy shot for me or my teammates.

You have to use your legs for the main source of power behind your shots though. You may be jumping, but that doesn't mean that you are using your legs... I see people who jump high on their jump shots but they still throw the ball towards the hoop with they arms. It should all be one fluid motion and the power from your legs dictates the distance of the shot. Yesterday I wasn't feeling it... my legs were tired... so I went out passed NBA 3 distance and I just couldn't get the ball there. I could have thrown it up more with my arms, but there is no point in sacrificing form.

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Old 04-24-2010, 09:19 PM   #60
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Yeah dude that's exactly the same thing as me. I won't shoot it unless I have a good look or a pick (even rarely will I shoot it then) cause my shot is too slow to put up effectively and it's contested regardless. I'd rather drive and dish or get a layup cause it's more efficient in my opinion.

I'm going to have to retool my shot again cause I taped it and I found out I was leaning back. I also noticed how freaking slow it was even though I felt like I sped it up a little. That leg thing is true also, I'm trying to add a bounce to my jump now.

The thing with me and threes is that I can't shoot them without my form screwing up. I have no problem with mid range jumpers in front of the arc, but behind it and I start to use my arms to throw the ball... so I don't shoot them. Sometimes I'll shoot them making sure I use proper form even though I airball most of them
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