I don't understand why the left opposes military spending?

[ThePhantomCreep]

You want to know what happens if we cut our spending in half...

You remember what Iraq used to look like with Sadaam in charge? You know what it looks like now?

Deny it all you want, but our military budget is holding the world together right now. Without us, Israel is nuking everyone in the Middle East while missiles rain down on them, Russia is taking over everywhere else in Asia. North Korea would have attacked south korea long ago.

I don't have a problem with the budget, I do have a problem with the oversight. But if you think dismantling our military will help anyone, anywhere, you are sadly mistaken.

Not sure I understand--are you saying our insanely expensive and completely unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq ultimately improved conditions in the region? Or are you one of the five remaining people in the US who still feel the war was justified?

The DoD has been selling that story for decades. "We need a strong military, the world will plunge into chaos without it". Yeah, sure. Typical BS used to justify their bloated budgets.

This country has been involved in some type of war for most of its history. I think we can stop pretending we're Earth's peacekeepers now.

[BoutPractice]

It's not that hard to understand... one reason is values, the other is that they prefer to spend money on social programs like universal health care.

The more money you spend on the military, the less you can spend on social programs... If the US could cut down on defense spending and have the rich pay just a little more in taxes, they would be able to pay for the kind of basic social protection you get in most first world countries without running up the debt. In theory that's all good and consistent.

The problem in practice: the United States being a world empire with a huge military complex tends to get dragged into costly wars no matter what the domestic priorities are (see LBJ as a great example).

Furthermore, Americans are particularly averse to taxes.

What therefore tends to happens is that when the left gets to power, social programs might get enacted (incremental and specific instead of universal due to the ferociousness of the right wing opposition, hence why you get hybrid monsters like Obamacare to get around that opposition), but not the amount in taxes to match, while military spending stagnates at best, increases at worst... When the right get to power, Americans (particularly wealthier ones) get a big tax cut AND defense spending goes through the roof.

The debt problem isn't that large now, but if the pattern continues, the US is in for enormous trouble in the long term.

[Akrazotile]

It's not that hard to understand... one reason is values, the other is that they prefer to spend money on social programs like universal health care.

The more money you spend on the military, the less you can spend on social programs... If the US could cut down on defense spending and have the rich pay just a little more in taxes, they would be able to pay for the kind of basic social protection you see in most first world countries without running up the debt.

The problem is, the United States being a world empire with a huge military complex tends to get dragged into costly wars no matter what the domestic priorities are (see LBJ as a great example).

Furthermore, Americans are particularly averse to taxes.

What therefore tends to happens is that when the left gets to power, social programs might get enacted (incremental and specific instead of universal due to the ferociousness of the right wing opposition, hence why you get hybrid monsters like Obamacare to get around that opposition), but not the amount in taxes to match, while military spending stagnates at best, increases at worst... When the right get to power, Americans (particularly wealthier ones) get a big tax cut AND defense spending goes through the roof.

The debt problem isn't that large now, but if the pattern continues, the US is in for enormous trouble in the long term.

You could say this about all government created jobs.

The left always wants the government to directly create jobs for people.

Why is the military the only exception to this view?

[ThePhantomCreep]

I don't know why the right is for it. It increases taxes. It is based on the idea of helping those in countries that can't help themselves. 2 things the right are against when it comes to our own land.

It's the wannabe alphamale mentality: "USA #1 = I'm #1" - say dickheads like the OP who never fired a weapon in their entire lives.

Since they themselves are weak, they need their country and race to be strong.

[jimmybball]

It's the wannabe alphamale mentality: "USA #1 = I'm #1" - say dickheads like the OP who never fired a weapon in their entire lives.

Since they themselves are weak, they need their country and race to be strong.

So the stereotypical bully that is hiding insecurities.

[ALBballer]

The right is just as hypocritical because they preach small government and fiscal conservatism but the United States Army is anything but small or fiscally sound.

[UK2K]

I don't know why the right is for it. It increases taxes. It is based on the idea of helping those in countries that can't help themselves. 2 things the right are against when it comes to our own land.

The right said they are opposed to helping Americans that cant help themselves?

Where did you see that? Or are you just making a blanket statement based on nothing because it sounds cool?

[Akrazotile]

I keep seeing this in here:

This message is hidden because ThePhantomCreep is on your ignore list.

But I'm not seeing it in the thread about the apish St John's student threatening to smash people's computers over a sticker.


Dude shows up in every thread where he can play the crybaby/victim/sympathy/minority card. Dodges every thread where he can't.

What a f@g.

[UK2K]

The right is just as hypocritical because they preach small government and fiscal conservatism but the United States Army is anything but small or fiscally sound.

That's the idea... to fix that.

Hence, why the right preachers small government and fiscal conservatism.

[ALBballer]

That's the idea... to fix that.

Hence, why the right preachers small government and fiscal conservatism.

Yes small government and fiscal conservativism unless it relates to our bloated military or giving huge corporations bailouts and huge tax subsidies .

Only the libertarians in the right wing actually practice those values. The majority of the right are war Hawks.

[shlver]

Military spending is simply the biggest federal jobs program. Indiscriminate cuts like 50% will destroy cities that depend on the military industrial complex and leave thousands unemployed.

[poido123]

Not sure I understand--are you saying our insanely expensive and completely unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq ultimately improved conditions in the region? Or are you one of the five remaining people in the US who still feel the war was justified?

The DoD has been selling that story for decades. "We need a strong military, the world will plunge into chaos without it". Yeah, sure. Typical BS used to justify their bloated budgets.

This country has been involved in some type of war for most of its history. I think we can stop pretending we're Earth's peacekeepers now.

We fight wars to protect national interests and those who can't defend themselves.


This isn't a peaceful world where you can leave the guns down and everything will be ok and fluffy little unicorns will fly through the air and all the world will join each other in group hugs etc etc.


I wouldn't expect a soft c.ck, tree hugging liberal pansy like yourself to understand that.


The problem isn't the military spending, the problem is who's in charge of the country and how they use that military to good use.


If you let America's military weaken to nothing, you will have no protection from nut job Kim Jon Un, you will have no resources to fight ISIS, you will lose America's fear factor over enemies who might think they can win a war with them.

[NumberSix]

Because the left wants to weaken America. It's not hard to figure out.

[BoutPractice]

You could say this about all government created jobs.

The left always wants the government to directly create jobs for people.

Why is the military the only exception to this view?

I wouldn't pretend to speak for "the left" but there is a difference investing productively in the future and engaging in a purely destructive activity like war.

I have no illusions that the US can turn into a hippie paradise: wars happen no matter who's in charge and preparing adequately for them, si vis pacem etc. is needed. But military spending for its own sake is uniquely dangerous... arms races for example actively cause wars, and in general the bigger your military, the more you'll want to use it.

[~primetime~]

50% is unrealistic

I just want to see a 10% cut...



THEN...throw 5% of that toward education, and the other 5% toward healthcare




hell, just even a 5% cut and throw all that extra savings toward education would nearly double the education budget.