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Old 11-11-2012, 07:51 PM   #46
Klazart
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

As for him being a bargain or not... I suppose a lot of that comes down to the subjective issue of how you rate him as a player where you and I are quite far apart...

However...

From this article : http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...in-perspective

Quote:
Chris Paul, $17.79 million
Deron Williams, avg $20 million
Derrick Rose, $15.5 million
Russell Westbrook, $12.9 million
Tony Parker, $12.5 million
Rajon Rondo, $11 million
Jose Calderon, $10.5 million
Steve Nash, $9 million
Rodney Stuckey, $8.5 million
Goran Dragic, $8.5 million
Devin Harris, $8.5 million
George Hill, $8 million
Mike Conley, $7.3 million
Kyle Lowry, $5.8 million
Jarrett Jack, $5.4 million
Andre Miller, $5 million
Luke Ridnour, $4 million
Ray Felton, $3.3 million

So from Stuckey at 8.5 to Conley at 7.3. I think to say that Lin is overpaid is really stretching it.

Watching Lin play, I think if he was allowed freedom and utilised properly he wouldn't be far from 18/8 which is a bargain at $8M/year.

However, right now, he is being played as a spot up corner shooter, not being used as the primary playmaker and having virtually no screens set for him. In that context his stats will of course suffer.

I don't mind having legitimate discussions of a player's ability/value. What irritates me is when people jump to superficial conclusions without assessing the full context of a situation.

Look at the Lakers. Are all those superstars suddenly scrubs?
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:55 PM   #47
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazart
As for him being a bargain or not... I suppose a lot of that comes down to the subjective issue of how you rate him as a player where you and I are quite far apart...

However...

From this article : http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...in-perspective



So from Stuckey at 8.5 to Conley at 7.3. I think to say that Lin is overpaid is really stretching it.

Watching Lin play, I think if he was allowed freedom and utilised properly he wouldn't be far from 18/8 which is a bargain at $8M/year.

However, right now, he is being played as a spot up corner shooter, not being used as the primary playmaker and having virtually no screens set for him. In that context his stats will of course suffer.

I don't mind having legitimate discussions of a player's ability/value. What irritates me is when people jump to superficial conclusions without assessing the full context of a situation.

Look at the Lakers. Are all those superstars suddenly scrubs?

Now you're reaching, first of all, Stuckey is not playing point guard in Detroit.

And I just took the yearly incomes from basketball-reference and he's frankly not a Dragic or Conley and his contract is built up in a terrible way for the Rockets where they have to pay him 15 million the last year which makes him untradeable..
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:57 PM   #48
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

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Originally Posted by millwad
Lets agree that we disagree.

Just so you know, I have no interest in seeing Lin fail. I am a Rocket fan and Lin was still in HS when I started to follow the Rockets, I only wish him success because a great Lin will give the Rockets a much greater chance to become great as well.

I'm not happy at all this far though, they gave up one great point guard in Dragic for a completely unproven Lin and this far I am not impressed at all and there are several things with his game that I'm very skeptical towards.

But hey, if he proves me wrong I'm the first one to tell so and I'm the first one to give him recognition for it and it's my only wish as a Rocket fan.

I totally get where you are coming from. Though I don't think it's fair to blame lin for releasing Dragic. They let dragic go because they didn't want to give him the player option.

What I want to ask you though is if you have been watching the Rocket's play this season. If you have... have you not noticed the following?

1) Lin is being asked to bring the ball up, give it to Harden then go stand in the corner.

2) He's being played as a spot up shooter. (How can his FG% not suffer when that's not the kind of player he is.)

3) He is not getting screens set for him.

4) When he leads the offense it looks MUCH smoother. The last game against the Pistons was a perfect example of this. When Lin was out the offense looked UGLY. When he came back in and was allowed to run the point the rockets ran over the Pistons and blew the game open.

I just want people to give him a chance. If you listen to coach Sampson's post game interview after the Pistons game he actually said that he thought TONY DOUGLAS was a better match up against the pistons' back-up PG than Lin and that TD was better at playmaking in transition than Lin... now anyone who has watched Douglas play will tell you how laughable those comments are. And that's the kind of stuff that makes you feel, that it's not that Lin is being treated as unproven, but that he is being judged as being worse than Tony Douglas without even being given a chance.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:59 PM   #49
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by millwad
Now you're reaching, first of all, Stuckey is not playing point guard in Detroit.

And I just took the yearly incomes from basketball-reference and he's frankly not a Dragic or Conley and his contract is built up in a terrible way for the Rockets where they have to pay him 15 million the last year which makes him untradeable..

It's not my article that puts Stuckey as a PG but ESPN's. As for the contract it actually is good for Housten because it gives them the cap space right now to get another Max contract player.

I think it's understandable you've got a lot of love for Dragic, having supported the Rockets, but I think you're severely underselling Lin.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:03 PM   #50
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazart
It's not my article that puts Stuckey as a PG but ESPN's. As for the contract it actually is good for Housten because it gives them the cap space right now to get another Max contract player.

I think it's understandable you've got a lot of love for Dragic, having supported the Rockets, but I think you're severely underselling Lin.

You should know that he's playing SG and that Knight is their PG.

And I just posted more player and their salaries and suddenly Lin's contract is less of a beauty.

And the name of the team is Houston, not "Housten". And look at the rockets, they have cheap players so the way the contract was constructed was only so the Knicks wouldn't be able to pay for him. And if Lin doesn't live up to the hype which he hasn't this far, then Houston will be stuck with his awful contract for 3 years without any possible ways out of it..
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:10 PM   #51
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by millwad
You should know that he's playing SG and that Knight is their PG.

And I just posted more player and their salaries and suddenly Lin's contract is less of a beauty.

And the name of the team is Houston, not "Housten".

It's called a typo. As for Knight and Stuckey. I noticed a bit of switching there. Sometimes it was Harden guarding stuckey and other times it was Lin.

Quote:
And look at the rockets, they have cheap players so the way the contract was constructed was only so the Knicks wouldn't be able to pay for him. And if Lin doesn't live up to the hype which he hasn't this far, then Houston will be stuck with his awful contract for 3 years without any possible ways out of it..

Lin doesn't need to live up to the hype of Linsanity to justify his contract. I think he can do 18/8. You keep ignoring the fact that he's being badly misused right now. Despite that his stats are pretty good. While he isn't scoring a lot he is running the offense well, when given the chance. He's cut down on his turnovers and is rebounding well. He had 10 rebounds a couple of games ago and 6 against Detroit.

Also, I've asked you like four times now and I'll ask you again, have you actually watched all or any of Houston's games this season? Because I have, from start to finish.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:29 PM   #52
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazart
It's called a typo. As for Knight and Stuckey. I noticed a bit of switching there. Sometimes it was Harden guarding stuckey and other times it was Lin.

Defense and offense is a completely different thing and Knight is still the point guard, that shouldn't be hard to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazart
Lin doesn't need to live up to the hype of Linsanity to justify his contract. I think he can do 18/8. You keep ignoring the fact that he's being badly misused right now. Despite that his stats are pretty good. While he isn't scoring a lot he is running the offense well, when given the chance. He's cut down on his turnovers and is rebounding well. He had 10 rebounds a couple of games ago and 6 against Detroit.

Also, I've asked you like four times now and I'll ask you again, have you actually watched all or any of Houston's games this season? Because I have, from start to finish.

First of all, Lin didn't grab 6 rebounds against Detroit, he grabbed 4 both times.

If Lin does 18 and 8 I will be really pleased and the fact that he's being misused is not only the coaching staff's fault, the guy is even afraid of shooting and we saw how it ended when Bayless didn't allow him to bring up the ball up.

And of course I've seen every game, I have LP and I have seen every second of every game and I'm not impressed by Lin at all. He looks mediocre. Mediocre defense and mediocre offense at best. I doubt that you've seen all the games since you even used a source where Stuckey was called a PG when the Rockets have faced Detroit twice this season and we all know who the PG is..
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:31 PM   #53
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Would you all just chill and stop hating on the guy
He came out undrafted, give him some time man
Esp if you're a Rockets fan, SUPPORT your player, not nail him after 5? games


Plus he's really not doing so bad right now. If you're expecting Chris Paul or Deron Williams to show up in your team of course you're going to be disappointed
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazart
Lin doesn't need to live up to the hype of Linsanity to justify his contract. I think he can do 18/8. You keep ignoring the fact that he's being badly misused right now. Despite that his stats are pretty good. While he isn't scoring a lot he is running the offense well, when given the chance. He's cut down on his turnovers and is rebounding well. He had 10 rebounds a couple of games ago and 6 against Detroit.

Also, I've asked you like four times now and I'll ask you again, have you actually watched all or any of Houston's games this season? Because I have, from start to finish.
I've watched three games from start to finish, and my impression is that the Rockets aren't misusing Lin, they're protecting him. More minutes and more ball-handling means more turnovers.

Watch carefully the amount of minutes that Lin gets under Sampson in the next few games. If it stays at around 25 - 28 minutes and Toney Douglas is getting the rest, it will tell you two likely things:

1) The coaching staff, after watching tape, feels that playing Lin 30+ minutes leads to more turnovers

2) They feel that Douglas is better defensively

That's just a hypothesis, but something to keep your eyes on.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:48 AM   #55
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Having to post a thread about Lin playing a decent game isn't needed at all. If your boy Lin performed well every day there would be more believers. But if you have to post a thread because he played one ok game means he didn't perform well previously. You can't make us believers , when ever he performs is when he will get his credit.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:58 AM   #56
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Rockets are paying Lin 8 mill each for 3 years, no 15 in last but 8
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:46 AM   #57
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechox2
Rockets are paying Lin 8 mill each for 3 years, no 15 in last but 8
Last year is a "poison pill.". He gets more $.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:00 AM   #58
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Salary is 5, 5, 15 for Lin
the cap hit is 8.3 across
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:02 AM   #59
Klazart
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepseskaf
I've watched three games from start to finish, and my impression is that the Rockets aren't misusing Lin, they're protecting him. More minutes and more ball-handling means more turnovers.

Watch carefully the amount of minutes that Lin gets under Sampson in the next few games. If it stays at around 25 - 28 minutes and Toney Douglas is getting the rest, it will tell you two likely things:

1) The coaching staff, after watching tape, feels that playing Lin 30+ minutes leads to more turnovers

2) They feel that Douglas is better defensively

That's just a hypothesis, but something to keep your eyes on.

In the first two games, Lin played as the PG and Harden as the SG. They combined incredibly well and Harden had those 40 point games. Lin did well in these games though not amazingly. The second game he had 20/10/7 Almost a tripple double.

Then they changed it to make Lin camp at the corner and let Harden handle the ball. Three games have shown it as a completely failed experiment. TD has been more than useless. Harden has gotten badly exposed trying to play ISO heroball and his turnovers have skyrocketed.

In the Pistons game they again tried to make Douglas play the point and he was once more all over the place. Sampson had no choice but to put Lin back in because the offense was useless without him. This time he played the point and ran the offense and the rockets ended up with a blow out.

Your hypothesis sounds more like confirmation bias and a self-fullfilling prophecy.

You say that he isn't good enough. Then you put him out of position, completely ignore his strengths and give him a marginal role. Then, when he is unable to excel at something he was never good at to begin with (being a spot up 3 point shooter) you say, ah, I knew he was shit.

All it proves is that the same predujice and bias that has dogged Lin his entire career has followed him to Houston as well. How can you conclude after so few games, where he hasn't been allowed to play as a PG that he shouldn't even get a chance to prove himself in the role and justify that as anything except bias, I don't know.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:26 AM   #60
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Default Re: Jeremy Lin and the ROckets played well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by millwad
He's not a bargain at all;

Westbrook: 13.6 million
Parker: 12.5 million
Lowry: 5.7 million
Dragic: 7.5 million
Collison: 2.3 million
Mo Williams: 8.5 million
Nash: 8.7 million
George Hill: 8 million
John Wall: 5.9 million
Curry: 3.9 million
Felton: 3.4 million
Andre Miller: 5 million
Lawson: 10 million (real salary over 5 years)
Barea: 4.4 million
Teague: 2.4 million
Conley: 7.3 million
Chalmers: 4 million

How is Jeremy Lin a bargain...

Take out the guys on rookie deals and get back with me.
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