What was Kidd like in prime?

[Thorpesaurous]

Pretty much everything that needs to be said has been said.

But I will add one of the things that made him so special was his size and strength. There were guys as fast as him end to end, but almost no one his size, and it extended breaks and secondary breaks, because as most everyone is taught defensively to "stop the ball" on the break. He, unlike most smaller points who could get up the floor as fast as him, could force it further toward the baseline, and create different angles from which to get trailers buckets.

He also passed with more touch than most. That's what Rake is saying up there about "floating" a bounce pass to VC for a trailing three. He made it easier to finish than most guys, even though they may hit you in the same spot at the same time, his ball just seemed more catchable, and it's something that can't really be quantified.

I don't know how he'd do now. People can say that the increased attention to handchecking would allow him to be more physical and get to the hoop more, but it would also affect him defensively where he was elite (I'd argue it isn't that much different now than in his prime in NJ, things really changed early in his career). And his getting to the hoop more might be mitigated some by rotations having been made easier by turning the illegal defense into defensive 3 seconds, which has made rotations a little easier. Then again rotations coming to him aren't exactly a good thing because it just leaves guys open, which he's gonna be able to find better than anyone playing now from that spot because of his size. His jumper would be more of an issue now because more sag is played with, but no one pushes tempo now like he did.

And yeah he couldn't shoot. It's crazy to me to see that he's turned himself into a good shooter. It was so bad that his becoming good at it is one of the biggest tributes I can think of to a players work ethic. To see that he's like 3rd on the threes made list is nuts to me. He even said it at the half of the Heat game Sunday when asked about coming out of his slump. "I wasn't staying in my shot, and I'm just not good enough a shooter to not stay in my shot." Self awareness is one of the best attributes one can have.

Rondo has a similar skillset, but his approach is different, less frantic, and less forcefull than Kidd's was. You wouldn't get the lazy stretches you get from Rondo (which I'm a huge fan (a C's fan), and sometimes it feels like an effect of the offense). I remember Kidd with the Nets where they'd run horn rubs and hand offs for him. He'd enter to the high post, then run a fade off of a screen from the other high post, and if he didn't get it, he'd come ripping back off that same screener, deek in for a dive, and if that wasn't there, come back to run off the ball for a hand off. It always looked crazy to me because it looked almost like the team was in a panic if he didn't have the ball, like everyone was going nuts trying to get the ball back in his hands, but it was just the frantic pace he was capable of playing at.

A fair question is who would you rather have, Kidd or GP. Their size and defense gives them enough similarities that you can't throw out the defense as a plus like you can against some other players. It sort of comes down to your preference for Payton's post game vs. what Kidd brought in Tempo and intangibles, which are far harder to quantify. I'm not sure I know the answer. I live in the greater NY area, so I know I've seen Kidd a whole hell of a lot more.

[Heavincent]

Kidd running the fastbreak with Carter and Jefferson was a thing of beauty.

And this is one of the most insane pass fakes I have ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7mqB57LL4I

[upside24]

Who remembers this commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wdMLutQfe8

Nice commercial.

[Rake2204]

Kidd running the fastbreak with Carter and Jefferson was a thing of beauty.

And this is one of the most insane pass fakes I have ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7mqB57LL4I

That is fantastic. One of my favorite lob passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DtSYebQUAM#t=0m11s

[The_Yearning]

A bigger, stronger Rondo.

Kidd > Rondo by miles. You think Rondo could have taken those Nets team to back to back finals?

[JoshCoward]

Some great posts in this thread. Even before his Nets days, he carried a heavy load in that Suns team in 2000(I believe?) that consisted of injury-prone & done Gugliotta and Hardaway, Rookie Marion, aging Cliff Robinson, and pretty good role-players in Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk to a 51 win in a tough Western Conference. And with when Hardaway and Kidd played together, they had a record of 33-12 - so it could've been interesting had Penny stayed healthy.

My favourite pass from Kidd is the one he made in an All-Star game to Kenyon Martin. A look-away one hand lob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOTwuifcXo8#t=01m30s

[Pointguard]

Kidd running the fastbreak with Carter and Jefferson was a thing of beauty.

And this is one of the most insane pass fakes I have ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7mqB57LL4I

Classic example of Kidd playing chess while everybody else is playing checkers. He used to totally disarm defenses.

[longhornfan1234]

Ineffiecient Pg.

[iDunk]

Great defender, didn't chose to score as much as people wanted him to, pass first, flirted with a triple double almost every game, 3 point shot wasn't as good as it is now but still effective.

[ProfessorMurder]

Kidd > Rondo by miles. You think Rondo could have taken those Nets team to back to back finals?

Did I say anything about Rondo being as good? No. I said they were similar.

[TheBigVeto]

I never saw him on those Nets teams that made the finals.

I imagine a better/faster/less fat version of Deron Williams.

Could he shoot the J?
Or was he drive n' kick / go for the lay-up?

He's better than Deron in everything except scoring. A walking triple double like Lebron, Big-O, Bird and Magic.

[Xiao Yao You]

Great defender, didn't chose to score as much as people wanted him to, pass first, flirted with a triple double almost every game, 3 point shot wasn't as good as it is now but still effective.

Who wants a sub-40% shooter to score more? He should have shot less even if it cost him triple doubles.

[Reggie43]

I feel that Kidd gets vastly overrated as a player by his two finals appearances in the early 2000s.

Dont get me wrong going to two straight finals is pretty impressive but when the only good teams you have to go through in those 2 years are the 50 win Pre-Rasheed Wallace Pistons and the 49 win Celtics led by Pierce and Walker it certainly puts the accomplishment in perspective.

In their last Finals appearance the Nets record in the nba leaguewide placed them at 8th place but was lucky enough to play in the eastern conference thus giving them the 2nd seed in the east playoffs. Place that Nets team in the west and they would merely be the 7th seed in the playoffs facing the 59 win Sacramento Kings led by Webber/Peja/ Bibby and they would be hardpressed to win that matchup to advance in the 2nd round.

To be fair it wasnt the Nets fault that the east was at its weakest and they took advantage of the situation and took care of business.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

His son had a really large head

[DuMa]

Who remembers this commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wdMLutQfe8

classic man. just classic