Wilt's defense at 34 years old

[Helix]

He could be good backup to Noah. In this highlight he seems as good as Omer Asik.

You know, why do you find it necessary to make a trolling comment like this? Why not add to the discussion rather than take away from it.

A good backup to Noah?!?! Well let me see if I can explain something to you. Any of us "older folks" posting here that saw Wilt play and claim that he would be dominant today.....well, there are reasons for that.

1.Wilt was extremely well grounded in the fundamentals.....comparable to Duncan.

2.Wilt had a high basketball IQ.....once again Duncan comes to mind.

3.Wilt's physicality was off the charts. There's no one playing today that compares to him. No, not even your vaunted Dwight Howard. Compared to Howard Wilt was bigger, faster, stronger, could jump higher, etc.

And don't forget.....bringing Wilt forward in time 40-50 years he gets all the benefits that money and technology have added to the game. That makes him even better.

[jlauber]

You know, why do you find it necessary to make a trolling comment like this? Why not add to the discussion rather than take away from it.

A good backup to Noah?!?! Well let me see if I can explain something to you. Any of us "older folks" posting here that saw Wilt play and claim that he would be dominant today.....well, there are reasons for that.

1.Wilt was extremely well grounded in the fundamentals.....comparable to Duncan.

2.Wilt had a high basketball IQ.....once again Duncan comes to mind.

3.Wilt's physicality was off the charts. There's no one playing today that compares to him. No, not even your vaunted Dwight Howard. Compared to Howard Wilt was bigger, faster, stronger, could jump higher, etc.

And don't forget.....bringing Wilt forward in time 40-50 years he gets all the benefits that money and technology have added to the game. That makes him even better.

To add to the above...take a look at a peak David Robinson, who was an inch shorter than Wilt, and about 50 lbs lighter than a peak Wilt. Robinson was a well built athlete, but I can guarantee you that he would have been DWARFED by a prime Wilt. Hell, Chamberlain also made the 7-2 Gilmore look like a scrawny wimp in their first encounter.

And, as you pointed out, Chamberlain was over 7-1, and would have been measured at close to 7-3 in today's NBA. He played anywhere from 275 to well over 300 lbs. He had an enormous 7-8 wingspan. He was a college High Jump champion (part-time, and with poor technique), who also particpated in the long jump, triple jump, and was a member of KU's 4x100 team. And, in his 14 years in the league, he was, by far-and-away, the strongest man in the league. And, as anyone can see by just going thru this topic, he was a MASSIVE man. And no matter what his maximum bench press really was, many consider him the strongest man to have EVER played in the NBA.

Combine all of that with these kind of skills...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4WZXiaDzyc

and ANYONE can plainly see that the man would have DOMINATED in TODAY's NBA.

[Helix]

He was at his defensive peak in the mid-60's. I have posted the numbers many times, but in almost every one of his 29 playoff series, he DRAMATICALLY reduced his opposing center's FG%'s. In fact, in those 29 playoff series, he only surrendered a 50% or better FG% in TWO.

One of them was against multiple all-star Zelmo Beaty in the '64 playoffs. Beaty shot .521 against Wilt, while scoring 14.3 ppg along with 9.5 rpg. Meanwhile, Chamberlain averaged 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, and shot .559 against him.

The other came against Jerry Lucas in the '72 Finals. Granted, Lucas was a PF playing out of position, but many here are probably not aware of the fact that Lucas had tremendous range. The term "Lucas Layup" was coined after his 25+ ft range. In the '72 Finals, Lucas shot an even .500 against Wilt. However, in the first half of the first game, he was hitting shots from the Santa Monica Freeway, and at halftime, he had gone 9-11. A 35 year old Wilt managed to defend Lucas, and STILL cover the paint, the remainder of that series. Lucas went 37-81 the rest of the series, or .456.

You can go right down the list. In one series against Red Kerr, Chamberlain held him down from his season average of .443 shooting down to .376, and in the other it went from .392 to .296 against Wilt. Russell shot .457 in the '62 regular season, and in the ECF's against Wilt, .420. In the '67 regular season, Russell shot .454. In the '67 ECF's, and against Wilt... .358. Thurmond shot .437 in the '67 regular season, and in the Finals, and against Wilt... .343. Bellamy shot .541 in the '68 regular season, and only .421 against Wilt in the playoffs.

And there were other's in which we don't have verifiable FG%'s, but in which we could take an solid educated guess. For instance, Russell shot .433 in the '64 regular season, but only .356 in his ten post-season games, five of which were against Wilt.

And I have read some here who claim that Wilt was not a good defensive player early in his career. Well, in his ROOKIE season, in 59-60, he faced Russell in 11 regular season H2H's. And we have an article which covered their first ten H2H's. Keep in mind that Russell shot his career high that season, going .467 overall (and in a league that shot .410). In those ten H2H games, Wilt held Russell to .398 shooting.

And, how about Wilt's first encounter against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy? Bellamy came into that came averaging over 30 ppg. At the opening center jump, Chamberlain told Bellamy that he would he )Bellamy) would not score a point in the game. Sure enough, in the first half, Wilt held Bellamy scoreless, and blocked numerous shots. As they were getting ready for the seond half tip-off, a shell-shocked Bellamy was relieved to hear Wilt tell him that he would "let him play" the rest of the game. BTW, Chamberlain outscored Bellamy in that first encounter, 52-14.

Back to a PRIME Wilt, and his defense. Take a look at the single season rankings in terms of Defensive Win Shares...aside from Russell, the highest achieved were by Chamberlain, and they came in the mid-60's...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_season.html

And to be honest, Wilt was probably at his peak in '67, even though in that season, it was well down the list from his '68 and '64 seasons, in which he had the 7th and 8th best seasons of all-time. Once again, in the playoffs in '67, he completely shut down Russell (.358), and Thurmond (.343.)

My point was......imagine what his defense could have been like in 67-68 had he concentrated on it like he did 71-73.

Also, pertaining to Russell.....one of these days we're gonna get together (email , pm, which I can't access for some reason, or somehow) and I'm gonna enlighten you on some things about Russell that I think will make you see him a bit differently.

[jlauber]

My point was......imagine what his defense could have been like in 67-68 had he concentrated on it like he did 71-73.

Also, pertaining to Russell.....one of these days we're gonna get together (email , pm, which I can't access for some reason, or somehow) and I'm gonna enlighten you on some things about Russell that I think will make you see him a bit differently.

I have completely changed my mind on Russell's offense in the last few years. But, to clarify, I WATCHED MANY of the Russell-Wilt H2H's live in the 60's, and Chamberlain was such a much more skilled offensive player, and because of that, for years I just accepted the scoring and FG%'s of Russell as being average, at best.

However, after researching much more of Russell's career, including the video footage which has come out in the last few years, and I was actually stunned by just how good an offensive player he really was. Granted, he didn't have exceptional range, but he was very quick, and had quality post moves.

AND, what really caught my eye, was that the Celtic offense RAN THRU RUSSELL. He was a marvelous passer.

BTW, you are probably aware of these, but perhaps there are some here who aren't...

Russell had close out games in the Finals, of 30-38, and a game seven OT win of 30-40. He also had a Finals in '65 in which he averaged 18 ppg, 29 rpg, and shot a mind-boggling .702 from the floor. And in the following season's Finals, he LED Boston in scoring at 23.6 ppg.

[jlauber]

Wilt's defensive excellence during his LA years, gives him a decent case for the honor of greatest defender of all time.

As great a defensive player as Wilt was, the overwhelming evidence points to Russell's defensive impact as the greatest ever. I would say that a prime Chamberlain, in the mid-to-late 60's, was close to a prime Russell. Still, ThaRegul8r has provided articles, and statistical analysis, that support Russell as the greatest ever.

From the limited research that we do have, though, it would appear that Chamberlain was the game's greatest shot-blocker. Something that raised my eyebrows was the information that Psileas was able to produce on Wilt's LAST two seasons. In some 50 known games in each of those seasons, Chamberlain averaged 7-8 bpg in '72, and 5-6 bpg in '73.

Why is that so significant? Because in the very next season, the NBA started officially recording blocked shots, and Nate Thurmond, who many consider one of the game's greatest defensive players and shot-blockers, averaged 2.9 bpg. And Kareem, who would win three blocked shot titles, averaged 3.5 bpg. In fact, Kareem's high season was 4.1 bpg (and he only had one other season at 4.0 bpg.)

We also have KNOWN games in which Chamberlain recorded 20+ blocks. In one, he had a double-triple-double game of 34 points, 33 rebounds, and 20 blocks. And in a nationally televised game in the 1968, Chamberlain recorded 23 blocks. Harvey Pollack also had Chamberlain with one game in the early 60's of 25. And, there are NUMEROUS other games in which Chamberlain had 15+ blocks in a game.

[PTB Fan]

Although he wasn't concentrating solely on defense in 67 and 68, his defense those years was just about as good. He was a few years younger and hadn't yet torn up his knee.

Yeah. I've got few others above him which is why i said his case is decent.

[winnnaz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqQsiwZ1w-c
For JLauber

[PTB Fan]

As great a defensive player as Wilt was, the overwhelming evidence points to Russell's defensive impact as the greatest ever. I would say that a prime Chamberlain, in the mid-to-late 60's, was close to a prime Russell. Still, ThaRegul8r has provided articles, and statistical analysis, that support Russell as the greatest ever.

From the limited research that we do have, though, it would appear that Chamberlain was the game's greatest shot-blocker. Something that raised my eyebrows was the information that Psileas was able to produce on Wilt's LAST two seasons. In some 50 known games in each of those seasons, Chamberlain averaged 7-8 bpg in '72, and 5-6 bpg in '73.

Why is that so significant? Because in the very next season, the NBA started officially recording blocked shots, and Nate Thurmond, who many consider one of the game's greatest defensive players and shot-blockers, averaged 2.9 bpg. And Kareem, who would win three blocked shot titles, averaged 3.5 bpg. In fact, Kareem's high season was 4.1 bpg (and he only had one other season at 4.0 bpg.)

We also have KNOWN games in which Chamberlain recorded 20+ blocks. In one, he had a double-triple-double game of 34 points, 33 rebounds, and 20 blocks. And in a nationally televised game in the 1968, Chamberlain recorded 23 blocks. Harvey Pollack also had Chamberlain with one game in the early 60's of 25. And, there are NUMEROUS other games in which Chamberlain had 15+ blocks in a game.

I personally have few players above Wilt in terms of D but Wilt's case is decent enough to get him in the debate. That's all i wanted to say.

[jlauber]

I personally have few players above Wilt in terms of D but Wilt's case is decent enough to get him in the debate. That's all i wanted to say.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I can only see Russell having a greater case. IMHO, Wilt is close behind. Then there is a pretty good drop off after that. I won't go into a long rant bashing Hakeem's defense, but let me just say, there is a LOT of evidence to suggest that, while he was among the better defensive players of all-time, he has no case as being anywhere near the top. Even in the existing statistical ratings that we do have, he is nowhere near the best.

[jlauber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqQsiwZ1w-c
For JLauber

I'll take the 71-72 Lakers and the 66-67 Sixers.

[BlackJoker23]

He could be good backup to Noah. In this highlight he seems as good as Omer Asik.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3My4MHr51c

very sensible post. u may be giving wilt too much credit tho. i dont think he's as good as asik

[jlauber]

very sensible post. u may be giving wilt too much credit tho. i dont think he's as good as asik

There are a couple of posters who are close (and they may be one in the same), but this idiot is the most moronic poster on this forum.

[BlackJoker23]

There are a couple of posters who are close (and they may be one in the same), but this idiot is the most moronic poster on this forum.

no that would your dumb and extremely retarded ass. all fukktards in the world are proud since u carry on their legacy you insecure b1tch

[jlauber]

no that would your dumb and extremely retarded ass. all fukktards in the world are proud since u carry on their legacy you insecure b1tch

If the above post doesn't prove my previous post, then I don't know what else can.

[BlackJoker23]

If the post doesn't prove my previous post, then I don't know what else can.

if you cant admit you are a fukktard, were bullied and abused in school and dropped on your head too many times as a child, i dont what to say.