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Old 01-20-2009, 03:15 PM   #1
ThyGreatOne
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Default [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

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BOSTON -- Steve Kerr isn't going to like this, but he needs to make another trade. Maybe a lot of trades.

The Suns' general manager extended his neck already by trading for Shaquille O'Neal, and replacing coach Mike D'Antoni with Terry Porter, and acquiring Jason Richardson at the expense of Boris Diaw and Steve Nash's close friend Raja Bell. But Kerr can't stop there, because the Suns remain a team of gaudy parts that form an inefficient engine. Altogether, they produce too little energy and too much exhaust.

All of the talk before their game Monday night in Boston was of how they appeared to be coming together and finding a medium style that benefited the strengths of both Nash and Shaq. The Suns had scored 100 points or more in the last 10 games, and their core stars looked rejuvenated and promising in each other's company.

And then 10 minutes into the first quarter, the Celtics had them down 30-13. It was 56-24 more than three minutes before intermission. Never in the half did the Suns total more field goals than turnovers.

With thanks to the informed counsel I received around the Suns' locker room after the game, here is their problem: They spend too much effort on compromise and not enough on sacrifice, and meanwhile the team suffers. The Suns are a respectable 23-16 overall, but they are a revealing 6-10 against their rival eight playoff contenders in the West. How can a team of Nash, Shaq, Amaré Stoudemire, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson and Leandro Barbosa -- each a celebrated name unto himself -- be so ineffectual as a group? The answer, as brought to my attention by one Suns insider after the game, can be found in the example of the team that had just finished kicking them up and down the floor.

The Celtics are a lot like the Suns. Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were accomplished stars who -- like Nash, Stoudemire and Hill -- had never starred for accomplished teams. They had never reached an NBA Finals. The Celtics won their championship by focusing not on their needs as individuals but on the needs of the team. They became obsessed with making the extra pass and rotating to cover for each other defensively.

"I had a group of guys that were very willing to be coached and weren't stuck on who they were,'' Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. "I hear guys say they want to win it, but I think what they're really saying is, 'I want to win it as long as I can keep doing what I do.' I had three stars who said they wanted to win and they would change to do it. I don't think you get that a lot.''

The Suns have been trying to change. Shaq has accepted a lesser role, Nash's scoring is down (to 14.4 points) and Hill has been "an All-NBA defender,'' according to Kerr. But do they really believe deep down that they can make it work? Are they truly married to the mission? They still don't blend as a team, and a 104-87 collapse against Boston demonstrates that they aren't committed to the fine details that separate contenders like the Celtics and Spurs from all of the pretenders who never can quite understand the difference between winning and losing.

Let me say that I tend to be extremely conservative when it comes to slamming the door on contenders. My instinct is to not rule out the chances of any team as talented as these Suns with a half-season still to play. But we've all seen the commitment the Spurs and Celtics have made, and the team-first discipline the Lakers, Cavaliers and Magic are creating -- and these Suns don't look like they have that kind of commitment or discipline in them.

I'm not questioning their heart -- Shaq has won four championships and Nash wants to win badly -- but I doubt their functionality as a group. It doesn't matter that they were concluding a back-to-back or playing for the fourth time in five days; a championship team would have embraced the challenge of playing in Boston against the Celtics. What does the Suns' reaction say about them?

They face three options that I can see.

• No. 1: Look for their version of Chauncey Billups. The Nuggets were trying to create a more disciplined approach, but it didn't come together until they traded a finisher (Allen Iverson) for a creator (Billups). One option Kerr may consider is packaging Stoudemire for a lesser frontcourt star, a Luis Scola type. Would Miami be interested in Stoudemire for Udonis Haslem and other pieces? (Andrei Kirilenko is another frontcourt defender who could help glue a lot of the holes in Phoenix, but it's hard to see Jerry Sloan embracing Stoudemire.)

• No. 2: Wait until 2010. Stoudemire can become a free agent that summer, when the contracts of Nash and Shaq also expire to create max cap space. In the meantime, however, Nash and Shaq (and maybe Hill) could grow frustrated that their biological clocks are ticking down when they could be contributing to a championship contender.

• No. 3: Start over. This is a radical plan, and I don't envision it happening anytime soon. But if you're going to rebuild the team anyway, would you rather do it now or later? Especially when Nash and Shaq are playing at a high level?

Nash could fit with any number of contenders while also coming off the cap in 2010. And I don't agree that Shaq is untradable, especially now that he's talking about extending his career. If he plays through the season at this rate, he'll enter the summer as a championship center putting up strong numbers with a $21 million expiring contract. He and Nash will have value in every realm, including the box office.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:31 PM   #2
drummer44
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Default Re: [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

I think by the trade deadline, if this team doesn't come together, they'll start to make a move. They're not going to remain status quo for the rest of the season. They have too much talent and too much money into this team.

I predicted at the beginning of the season that we would be just over .500 as a team at the all star break. We're not too far from that. I still have confidence in the players, but I don't have the confidence in our head coach. For some reason, he just hasn't reached these players and they aren't busting their ass for him either.

I don't see the brotherhood amoungst the players either and I believe that stems from a coach that hasn't built it. It's the coach's job to develop the teams comradary and chemistry and this coach just hasn't done either.

Also, his substitution patterns has me scratching my head quite often. In the half court we're shooting well, but we still don't seem to be a well oiled machine yet. Maybe we expect too much???

On D, we look dreadful. Our old legs show already. Old legs require great team defense and ours is awful. We don't help each other or rotate worth a crap. Nash gets destroyed on the perimeter nearly every game. Taking him out of his role on offense really hurts him on defense. We need an up tempo game to utilize his strengths and help cover his deficiencies. He looks off kilter this year.

I have only seen one play drawn up in a Porter time out that has worked. Every other time out play looks like we're lost.

I would hope that Kerr is personally interviewing these players to see what they think of their coach. If they don't respect him, they need to move on Porter. Not sure that's going to happen cause Porter and Kerr are friends.

If it's the case where Porter is Kerr's man, then maybe it's time we blow this thing up and rebuild. As it is, I'm not sure we'll make the playoffs. My opinion doesn't stem from last nights shellacking from the Celts. I haven't felt real good about this team all year. We've had two or three good games where we really looked all around good. that's it. That ain't gonna cut it in the west.
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Old 01-21-2009, 06:23 AM   #3
mamba24
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Default Re: [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

you may never be able to replace amare but you would get 2-3 star level players to play with shaq and nash...think 2 J-rich type players...
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

Im open to moving Stat, hes really struggling recently and not fitting into Porters style of play
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:08 PM   #5
Jordandunk23
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Default Re: [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

Good points. but just like the trade for shaq, its is basically saying phx has to win a championship now and maybe they do. shaq and nash are old so maybe they go for the final push by trading amare, maybe that is the best option.

another point of view is that amare is the guy for the future. if phx dont win and amare is gone, the future looks dim and uncertain. maybe amare does not bring home a championship but who knows...
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:31 PM   #6
DwadeOverLebron
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Default Re: [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

watsup guys! im offering a trade here, i just wanted a pheonix point of view on this... kerr and management to my understanding wanted amare to be more assertive/aggressive on defense and it hasn't happened, so what do yo u guys think of this trade?

drew gooden
ben gordon
joakim noah

for amare stoudemire

if you don't like that package anybody on the bulls roster is available with the exception of course derrick rose.

everybodys available! who do you guys want? i just picked those three just from lookin at your needs
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Old 01-30-2009, 09:03 PM   #7
bassy500
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Default Re: [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

the bulls would never give up those 3 guys for just amare stoudemire. Teams around the league are not stupid they also know amare's limitations on defence.

I think it is time to look at a mass clear out though. Where clearly not gonna win a championship with this team and well actually be lucky to make playoffs this year. and theres a few teams in the west below 9th that if they had of made better starts to the year such as twolves would be making it even harder for us to get that 8th seed.
We need to follow in the footsteps of portland and clear out a large % of the team for draft picks and cap space for the 2010 free agency. And then we can properly peice together the team Kerr wants.
Because as much as i will hate watching the suns be another memphis and be very average after trading off majority of players its better than watching us progressively get worse and do nothing about it.
If where not gonna make playoffs and lose anyways, id rather see us be rubbish but developing rookies now for the future.

I bet grant hill is spewing he left orlando to chase a ring now lol

Oh and we need to trade amare now or in the off season because with the team the way it is, you can bet hes leaving in free agency in 2010 so we should get as much for him as we can now

Last edited by bassy500 : 01-30-2009 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:46 AM   #8
ChiBulls7
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Default Re: [ Time To Trade Amare? ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassy500
the bulls would never give up those 3 guys for just amare stoudemire. Teams around the league are not stupid they also know amare's limitations on defence.

I think it is time to look at a mass clear out though. Where clearly not gonna win a championship with this team and well actually be lucky to make playoffs this year. and theres a few teams in the west below 9th that if they had of made better starts to the year such as twolves would be making it even harder for us to get that 8th seed.
We need to follow in the footsteps of portland and clear out a large % of the team for draft picks and cap space for the 2010 free agency. And then we can properly peice together the team Kerr wants.
Because as much as i will hate watching the suns be another memphis and be very average after trading off majority of players its better than watching us progressively get worse and do nothing about it.
If where not gonna make playoffs and lose anyways, id rather see us be rubbish but developing rookies now for the future.

I bet grant hill is spewing he left orlando to chase a ring now lol

Oh and we need to trade amare now or in the off season because with the team the way it is, you can bet hes leaving in free agency in 2010 so we should get as much for him as we can now
They would be gone in a second if it landed us Amar'e.
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