Comparing the 5 Greatest Centers Ever

[Deuce Bigalow]

NBA Regular Season

[Color=green]Bill Russell[/color] - 15.1 PPG, 19.9 TRB%, 12.2 AST%, 47.1 TS%

[Color=blue]Wilt Chamberlain[/color] - 30.1 PPG, 20.4 TRB%, 13.8 AST%, 54.7 TS%

[Color=purple]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar[/color] - 24.6 PPG, 15.6 TRB%, 14.6 AST%, 59.2 TS%

[Color=red]Hakeem Olajuwon[/color] - 21.8 PPG, 17.2 TRB%, 12.1 AST%, 55.3 TS%

[Color=gold]Shaquille O'Neal[/color] - 23.7 PPG, 17.8 TRB%, 13.9 AST%, 58.6 TS%

NBA Playoffs

[Color=green]Bill Russell[/color] - 16.2 PPG, 20.9 TRB%, 13.3 AST%, 47.4 TS%

[Color=blue]Wilt Chamberlain[/color] - 22.5 PPG, 21.9 TRB%, 12.9 AST%, 52.4 TS%

[Color=purple]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar[/color] - 24.3 PPG, 14.7 TRB%, 13.2 AST%, 57.1 TS%

[Color=red]Hakeem Olajuwon[/color] - 25.9 PPG, 16.0 TRB%, 15.6 AST%, 56.9 TS%

[Color=gold]Shaquille O'Neal[/color] - 24.3 PPG, 18.0 TRB%, 14.7 AST%, 56.5 TS%

NBA Finals

[Color=green]Bill Russell[/color] - 16.4 PPG, 21.4 TRB%, 52.2 TS%

[Color=blue]Wilt Chamberlain[/color] - 18.6 PPG, 22.0 TRB%, 52.8 TS%

[Color=purple]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar[/color] - 23.5 PPG, 12.4 TRB%, 55.6 TS%

[Color=red]Hakeem Olajuwon[/color] - 28.0 PPG, 14.0 TRB%, 53.4 TS%

[Color=gold]Shaquille O'Neal[/color] - 28.8 PPG, 18.3 TRB%, 59.0 TS%

Accomplishments

[Color=green]Bill Russell[/color] - 11x Champion, 12x Finalist, 5x MVP, 4.827 MVP Shares, 12x All-Star, 11x All-NBA team (3x First team), 4x Rebounding Champion

[Color=blue]Wilt Chamberlain[/color] - 2x Champion, 6x Finalist, 4x MVP, 4.269 MVP Shares, 13x All-Star, 10x All-NBA team (7x First team), 7x Scoring Champion, 11x Rebounding Champion, 9x Field Goal Percentage Leader

[Color=purple]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar[/color] - 6x Champion, 10x Finalist, 6x MVP, 6.203 MVP Shares, 19x All-Star, 15x All-NBA team (10x First team), 2x Scoring Champion, 1x Rebounding Champion, 1x Field Goal Percentage Leader

[Color=red]Hakeem Olajuwon[/color] - 2x Champion, 3x Finalist, 1x MVP, 2.611 MVP Shares, 12x All-Star, 12x All-NBA team (6x First team), 2x Rebounding Champion

[Color=gold]Shaquille O'Neal[/color] - 4x Champion, 6x Finalist, 1x MVP, 4.380 MVP Shares, 15x All-Star, 14x All-NBA team (8x First team), 2x Scoring Champion, 10x Field Goal Percentage Leader

Sources:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=305971
http://www2.zippyshare.com/d/2729139...t%20season.xls
http://www2.zippyshare.com/d/4153091...20playoffs.xls

[kNicKz]

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[Deuce Bigalow]

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Instead of using raw RPG and APG, which would be pointless to compare because the differences in pace, I used TRB% to measure rebounding and AST% to measure assists.

[fpliii]

Cool thread, are you gonna do one for guards and forwards too? It might be hard to choose guys though, I'd guess (not in order):

G: Jordan Magic Kobe West Robertson

F: Bird Duncan LeBron Erving (including ABA seasons) Garnett

[LAZERUSS]

I have already blown up the flawed AST%. It is completely worthless.

As for TS%...you need to include LEAGUE AVERAGE.

For instance, Chamberlain had a .513 true TS% (not the flawed TS% that has been exposed), while the league average in those six finals was .478. Furthermore, Chamberlain held his opposing starting center to a combined true TS% of .442 in those six Finals. So, here was Wilt blowing away the post-season league average in his six finals, and holding his opposing starting centers in those six finals (BTW, five of them were HOF starting centers) to WAY below the league average.

As a great example...how about Hakeem's shot-jacking in the '95 Finals? His true TS% was .515 in a post-season NBA that had a true TS% of .541. BTW, Shaq had a true TS% of .589 in that series. So, here was hakeem shooting WAY below the post-season league average...and allowing his opposing center to shoot WAY above it.

So, I want you to compute these all-time great centers using their true TS%, as compared to the LEAGUE AVERAGE, and then, also include their starting centers true TS%'s. Then, we would have a much better picture of who was more dominant.

[Odinn]

This kinda threads lead to rankings... So... I apologize for skipping to last page of the book.

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Bill Russell
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Moses Malone
7. Patrick Ewing
8. David Robinson
9. Willis Reed
10. Bill Walton or George Mikan

Honourable mentions; Arvydas Sabonis, Artis Gilmore, Dave Cowens, Nate Thurmond

[CavaliersFTW]

Cool thread, are you gonna do one for guards and forwards too? It might be hard to choose guys though, I'd guess (not in order):

G: Jordan Magic Kobe West Robertson

F: Bird Duncan LeBron Erving (including ABA seasons) Garnett

Cool as you may think it is, he's straight up trolling. Using things like AST% which is highly flawed, specifically to upset Jlauber who always points out how flawed it is. OP doesn't give a flying fvck about drawing up serious discussion with this thread, or making one for guards like you'd like. This is just a well-baited troll thread.

[Odinn]

I have already blown up the flawed AST%. It is completely worthless.

As for TS%...you need to include LEAGUE AVERAGE.

That's what I hate you about.

You cherry-pick so hard to look greater Wilt. Actually, too hard. If you think AST% is flawed and then you have to think TS% is flawed, too. Your agenda is too obvious. At least try to be more consistent.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Cool thread, are you gonna do one for guards and forwards too?

THIS

PG - Magic, Isiah, Oscar, Iverson, Kidd
SG - Jordan, Kobe, West, Wade, Drexler
SF - LeBron, Bird, Nique, Erving, Baylor
PF - Duncan, Garnett, Barkley, Malone, Dirk

[CavaliersFTW]

That's what I hate you about.

You cherry-pick so hard to look greater Wilt. Actually, too hard. If you think AST% is flawed and then you have to think TS% is flawed, too. Your agenda is too obvious. At least try to be more consistent.

He does cherry pick, as does quite literally everyone does when trying to remind others of what their favorite player was good or great at, and he's actually right about AST% not being an accurate reflection in this case. Another thing to note, assists were not given out the same way in Wilt's era. Which skews the statistic even more. People who get mad when these things are pointed out are just people who don't care about context I guess.

[fpliii]

Cool as you may think it is, he's straight up trolling. Using things like AST% which is highly flawed, specifically to upset Jlauber who always points out how flawed it is. OP doesn't give a flying fvck about drawing up serious discussion with this thread, or making one for guards like you'd like. This is just a well-baited troll thread.

I guess I didn't really think it through, busy with my FF draft. I don't really know his intentions admittedly and didn't read the OP, just commented because I'm a fan of all five players. Truth be told, regardless of the order in which somebody puts these guys (which to me might actually be the order listed, though I'm not certain), I'd very likely take all five before anybody else in an all-time draft.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Cool as you may think it is, he's straight up trolling. Using things like AST% which is highly flawed, specifically to upset Jlauber who always points out how flawed it is. OP doesn't give a flying fvck about drawing up serious discussion with this thread, or making one for guards like you'd like. This is just a well-baited troll thread.

How am I straight up trolling? Posting raw APG or RPG would be even MORE flawed. 120-130 possesions in the 60s compared to what, around 90 the past decades?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Cool thread, are you gonna do one for guards and forwards too? It might be hard to choose guys though, I'd guess (not in order):

G: Jordan Magic Kobe West Robertson

F: Bird Duncan LeBron Erving (including ABA seasons) Garnett

Sure why not. But do you know where I can get the missing TRB% and AST% data. Specifically the Finals?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Sure why not. But do you know where I can get the missing TRB% and AST% data. Specifically the Finals?

Do these:

PG - Magic, Isiah, Oscar, Iverson, Kidd
SG - Jordan, Kobe, West, Wade, Drexler
SF - LeBron, Bird, Nique, Erving, Baylor
PF - Duncan, Garnett, Barkley, Malone, Dirk

[LAZERUSS]

That's what I hate you about.

You cherry-pick so hard to look greater Wilt. Actually, too hard. If you think AST% is flawed and then you have to think TS% is flawed, too. Your agenda is too obvious. At least try to be more consistent.

BTW, here is the formula for a TRUE TS%.

FGM - 3PT MADE x2 + 3PT MADE x 1.5 x2 + FTM

Divided by

FGA - 3PTA + 3PTA x2 + FTM

I'll give you an example.

Larry Bird's 84-85 Finals.

He shot 53-118 from the field, 3-9 from the arc, and 34-40 from the line.

Here we go...

53-3= 50 x 2= 100 + 3 x1.5 x2 = 9 + 34 for a total of 143
118-9 = 109 x 2= 218 + 9 x2 = 18 + 40 for a total of 276
143/276 = a true TS% of .518

Then, the 84-85 post-season NBA shot on average 377-769 from the field, 10-35 from the arc, and 210-273 from the line.

377-10 = 367 x2 = 734 + 10x 1.5 x 2 = 30 + 210 for a total of 974
769-35 = 734 x 2 = 1468 + 35x2 = 70 + 273 for a total of 1811
974/1811 = .538.

So Bird in his 84-85 Finals, shot .518 as compared to a post-season league average of .538.