Illinois basketball fans

[DeuceWallaces]

Suck it!

[wang4three]

Bruce Weber needs to be fired.

[InspiredLebowski]

Pretty sure Michigan's my favorite for the B10 next season

[DeuceWallaces]

The last time they were slightly favored they went from #13 to not making the NIT.

[wang4three]

Gah, that was so frustrating. If Weber is still the coach next year, I'm going to petition that he takes a 70% paycut. There's absolutely no reason why he should make more money than my favorite professors and educators at UI who are 10x better than he is at their job.

[ILLsmak]

Gah, that was so frustrating. If Weber is still the coach next year, I'm going to petition that he takes a 70% paycut. There's absolutely no reason why he should make more money than my favorite professors and educators at UI who are 10x better than he is at their job.

Man... fans are fickle. Like I said, is it firing weber because we can't get rid of players? Well, we are getting rid of players. Bruce can't go out there and save us when we are cracking.

The gameplan was great... we were killing them. Tisdale was doing work... and then we made a couple stupid turnovers. And they came back. As soon as the game got close, every player clammed up. Everyone was passing the ball around like no you take it. Someone should have stepped up and no one did. So what happened? We had a SOPH (Paul) try to take over... bad shit. And a freshman... Richmond... take a bad three. Look at every team that has beaten us. They had someone step up. They said no, give me the ball... I'm not gonna lose.

And I wouldn't mind if we had a player that tried to step up and failed (which did happen for us... with Richmond and Paul, but by then we had wasted too much time and were already screwed.) But our guys won't even try to step up.

Today was the first time I can say that I agreed with Bruce's timeouts. He called plenty when we were sitting there not doing anything. But when they got back on the floor, they stopped moving and McCamey kept backing the ball out. Everyone in the world, including me even though I am not a huge McCamey fan, is waiting for him to step up in these situations. He's obviously one of the most offensively talented players in the NCAA. TAKE A SHOT. Remember last year when he couldn't get a shot off twice at the buzzer? I don't get what it is about him. It's sad.

They can say whatever they want about Weber making them men on Senior day... but McCamey and Davis are not men. Richmond, Paul, and Richardson... stupid mistakes notwithstanding... are MEN. Tisdale is trying to be a man. Bill Cole came up big for us in this game, too.

Just sad. All I can say is... disappointing, but I dunno why every Illini fan is like FIRE WEBER!!

-Smak

[bootsy]

Our team is full of scary ass hos... as soon as we lose momentum people start getting scared to shoot and start cracking. We played great D, we dominated the boards (even if we didn't get more rebs, we had plenty of fouls on rebs and tip outs where we got the ball back), dominated inside... and we just suddenly stop scoring.

This is what pisses me off about McCamey... he'll shoot all game. He'll even shoot you out of the game, but when it gets into crunch time he's scared to pull it. That shot Hardaway took was not a good shot... but he was open enough to pull it and he made it. McCamey doesn't.

We just keep backing the ball out and passing it back and forth... it's really pathetic because we played such a great game. We haven't lost yet, but I've seen enough to know I am disappointed no matter what.

-Smak

Dude you need to give it up with blaming the players. This all and I mean ALL falls on the coach and most of it has been. Like I have said, the players change, the coach remains the same and the results remain the same. Give me a break with this McCamey this, McCamey that stuff. Let's face it Weber is in way over his head and has been since his inherited bunch left after the 2006 season. This guy is not getting it done at this level.

You asked me about a week or so ago, who I wanted at coach. I can't give you a name but I tell what I don't want. I don't want a coach who coaches a boring style offense, a coach who every time he gets a lead(especially a big lead) doesn't continue to build on it and plays conservative, a coach who constantly looks like a douchebag yelling at his players, a coach that has can coach to his players strengths, a coach who has some kind of offensive philosophy that doesn't consist of waiting til the shot clock gets to 10 seconds or lower and chuck up a 17 footer or a 3 pointer and instead encourages his players to drive to the basket for an easier higher percentage shot or draw a foul, a coach who doesn't take his best, star player or any player for that matter out of the 1st half just because he has 2 fouls, a coach whose team doesn't look like a bunch of robots on offense.

I can't wait until next year when these same results will be happening and then you will have a new player(s) to blame and point the finger at. I know he will get another year but I want Weber gone after this season. I have had enough of this. This guy has an average to below record in Big 10 play since 2006. If those are the results you want from your head coach, that is great for you but I definitely don't. I want a coach who is going to use the talent that he has and max it out. Weber has not even come close to that.

[bootsy]

Man... fans are fickle. Like I said, is it firing weber because we can't get rid of players? Well, we are getting rid of players. Bruce can't go out there and save us when we are cracking.

The gameplan was great... we were killing them. Tisdale was doing work... and then we made a couple stupid turnovers. And they came back. As soon as the game got close, every player clammed up. Everyone was passing the ball around like no you take it. Someone should have stepped up and no one did. So what happened? We had a SOPH (Paul) try to take over... bad shit. And a freshman... Richmond... take a bad three. Look at every team that has beaten us. They had someone step up. They said no, give me the ball... I'm not gonna lose.

And I wouldn't mind if we had a player that tried to step up and failed (which did happen for us... with Richmond and Paul, but by then we had wasted too much time and were already screwed.) But our guys won't even try to step up.

Today was the first time I can say that I agreed with Bruce's timeouts. He called plenty when we were sitting there not doing anything. But when they got back on the floor, they stopped moving and McCamey kept backing the ball out. Everyone in the world, including me even though I am not a huge McCamey fan, is waiting for him to step up in these situations. He's obviously one of the most offensively talented players in the NCAA. TAKE A SHOT. Remember last year when he couldn't get a shot off twice at the buzzer? I don't get what it is about him. It's sad.

They can say whatever they want about Weber making them men on Senior day... but McCamey and Davis are not men. Richmond, Paul, and Richardson... stupid mistakes notwithstanding... are MEN. Tisdale is trying to be a man. Bill Cole came up big for us in this game, too.

Just sad. All I can say is... disappointing, but I dunno why every Illini fan is like FIRE WEBER!!

-Smak

This is where you are wrong and absolutely clueless. That is absolutely his job. Are you kidding me? What kind of a fan are you man. When a team is losing their grip on a game or can't close out games it is the coaches job to develop plays, put in the right players to make those plays. He has failed to do this. It is absolutely 100% the coaches job to put his team in the best position to win.

[wang4three]

Man... fans are fickle. Like I said, is it firing weber because we can't get rid of players? Well, we are getting rid of players. Bruce can't go out there and save us when we are cracking.

Don't ever call me a fickle fan. I was on his boat for 6 years till now. I was still with him when we had no shot at the tournament. I'm a lifelong Net fan. I know about losing. Enough is enough. I know when things will not get much better. **** you if you think I'm fickle.

The gameplan was great... we were killing them. Tisdale was doing work... and then we made a couple stupid turnovers. And they came back. As soon as the game got close, every player clammed up. Everyone was passing the ball around like no you take it. Someone should have stepped up and no one did. So what happened? We had a SOPH (Paul) try to take over... bad shit. And a freshman... Richmond... take a bad three. Look at every team that has beaten us. They had someone step up. They said no, give me the ball... I'm not gonna lose.

There is no order on this team. It's pick up basketball. Tisdale still can't set a proper screen, we still get outrebounded because guys don't box out. No one, including Bruce, has tried to take command of this team. All he does his yell and call out players to the media.

His go-to strategy this year has been to bench his best player to get them fired up. Give me a break. Other than that I watch us try to win by the 3 for the last 7 years. Worked when we had actually consistent shooters. Has been absolutely horrendous when we don't.

Even his patent defense has fallen this year. We've been terrible defensively. His defense allows for teams to get hot from outside and we've been continually burned from three. His unwillingness to zone has allowed other teams to exploit mismatches off of ball screens and smaller line ups.

And I wouldn't mind if we had a player that tried to step up and failed (which did happen for us... with Richmond and Paul, but by then we had wasted too much time and were already screwed.) But our guys won't even try to step up.

And that's not a reflection of coaching? Since when is motivation not part of the coaching description? Since when was instilling confidence not part of coaching? I'm all for tough love, but Bruce has broken this team down with his yelling and deriding of his players. I saw a team where no one wanted to take the big shot today. I saw a team where when we went on a slump, it lasted 7 and a half minutes cause they weren't confident. Bruce is a lead by yelling coach, and not by encouragement. I'm not surprised that no one stepped up.

Today was the first time I can say that I agreed with Bruce's timeouts. He called plenty when we were sitting there not doing anything. But when they got back on the floor, they stopped moving and McCamey kept backing the ball out. Everyone in the world, including me even though I am not a huge McCamey fan, is waiting for him to step up in these situations. He's obviously one of the most offensively talented players in the NCAA. TAKE A SHOT. Remember last year when he couldn't get a shot off twice at the buzzer? I don't get what it is about him. It's sad.

He's broken down as a person. Multiple benchings, multiple calling outs, McCamey is not even about college basketball anymore. He's looking at next year when he plays professionally. Bruce has lost touch with this team.

They can say whatever they want about Weber making them men on Senior day... but McCamey and Davis are not men. Richmond, Paul, and Richardson... stupid mistakes notwithstanding... are MEN. Tisdale is trying to be a man. Bill Cole came up big for us in this game, too.

If there is one player that deserves a ton of blame, it's Mike Tisdale. I cannot wait for the day he graduates. If I was 7-1, you could not pay me to be less than 250 pounds. You could not pay me to take that many 3s. He has hit some big ones for us, but if he was able to score in the paint consistently, we wouldn't be needing him to hit threes to be in the game. If he could rebound, I wouldn't be seeing Novak or Vogrich fly in and snag rebounds from him with ease. That's Tisdale's fault. Can't teach height, but apparently can't teach being a responsible big man either. I don't want to hear he's a just a kid either.

What I do blame the staff for is the lack of development of big men. This goes back to when I first became an Illini and Augustine was our big. The staff just does not teach our bigs how to play big in the paint. Even with Pruitt, his defense relied on him being bullishly strong. I don't see offensive talent developed and I don't see any increase in defensive awareness. How many times can I watch our bigs from Augustine to Tisdale secede position? As soon as anyone posts up our big men, I see our guys put both hands in the air. Mike Davis too. Come on now. Push them out, make it hard for them to post. It's like they give up and just worry about the shot being put up.

And to date, I've not seen Mike Davis develop any sort of reliable interior scoring. I thought this guy could've been a Hakim Warrick player for us. What a waste.

Just sad. All I can say is... disappointing, but I dunno why every Illini fan is like FIRE WEBER!!

-Smak

When I first became an Illini in 2003, everyone talked about how illustrious and rich Illini were in basketball. While they weren't the UNC and Duke's of the country, they were being compared to the Syracuses, Texases, and Michigan States. Now we're being talked of as if we're Gonzaga or Xavier. Where making the tournament is some sort of an achievement. Before that it was making the Sweet Sixteen as an expected. It's been 8 years and Bruce Weber has single handily lowered the expectations of the Illini. He had a great first 3 years, but when his players took over, we became a 2nd or 3rd rate program.

I don't want to hear it's only cause of the players, someone has to be held accountable. He seems like a good guy, thank him for running a relatively clean program, but the fit is no longer there. I've defended him and defended him. You can go back through the years on this board including the year we missed the tournament. I've defended him long enough. Hell, go back through this thread and you can see I was a Bruce Weber enthusiast though all of the bad/mediocre times.

But I know when to cut my losses. It's time to hold him accountable for the years of mediocrity. Can't blame talent. Can't blame lack of resources. Expectations were there and he missed them by a mile. Unless we make the tournament and make it to the Sweet 16, he better be gone next season. That or he pays back a chunk of his salary.

If this is a performance review, you can't go through this long of a stretch of failing expectations without getting canned. Eventually you have to be held responsible, even if the blame is not entirely on you.

[ILLsmak]

Let him play out w/ the BP/DJ class... although I am sure enough to bet that we'll be a top 10 team next year if we keep him.

Even though Bruce maybe hasn't handled adversity (and there has been lots... people forget all of the shit this program has been through) he has at least handled it by recruiting better players. You can't expect these guys to come in as Freshman/Sophs and carry our team. For sure, they have been huge impact players... Richmond is all big ten despite not starting...

I dunno why you guys can't just wait. We have players that I've never seen before... talent wise.

Brandon Paul, Richmond, and Leonard are insane talents. DJ is an outstanding role player and glue guy. AND all of those guys play D.

Then we got guys riding the bench right now that are pretty talented, too.

And we got guys coming in that are insane talents. Mike Shaw, although he isn't the highest rated guy... is the one I really have my eye on.

I know people might say "lol at u talking about our recruiting classes." but my opinion on this team hasn't changed that much. I thought we could do a little better... but I knew we weren't the type of team to go deep.

Just remember me... and remember what I said when we are balling next year. And while you probably won't think that you were wrong to call for Weber's firing (yet) you'll hopefully be glad he stayed another year.

-Smak

[bootsy]

Let him play out w/ the BP/DJ class... although I am sure enough to bet that we'll be a top 10 team next year if we keep him.

Even though Bruce maybe hasn't handled adversity (and there has been lots... people forget all of the shit this program has been through) he has at least handled it by recruiting better players. You can't expect these guys to come in as Freshman/Sophs and carry our team. For sure, they have been huge impact players... Richmond is all big ten despite not starting...

I dunno why you guys can't just wait. We have players that I've never seen before... talent wise.

Brandon Paul, Richmond, and Leonard are insane talents. DJ is an outstanding role player and glue guy. AND all of those guys play D.

Then we got guys riding the bench right now that are pretty talented, too.

And we got guys coming in that are insane talents. Mike Shaw, although he isn't the highest rated guy... is the one I really have my eye on.

I know people might say "lol at u talking about our recruiting classes." but my opinion on this team hasn't changed that much. I thought we could do a little better... but I knew we weren't the type of team to go deep.

Just remember me... and remember what I said when we are balling next year. And while you probably won't think that you were wrong to call for Weber's firing (yet) you'll hopefully be glad he stayed another year.

-Smak

[wang4three]

Let him play out w/ the BP/DJ class... although I am sure enough to bet that we'll be a top 10 team next year if we keep him.

I'm sure we can be a top 15 team ranked pre-season but it has to finish a top 10 season and a Final Four showing for me to be convinced he's the right coach for the job.

You can't expect these guys to come in as Freshman/Sophs and carry our team.

But we can expect the a freshman/sophomore-led Michigan team to beat us in the Big Ten Tourney. We have these amazing freshman as you mentioned, but apparently we can't expect anything from them while Michigan's less talented freshman (though Hardaway Jr. is a serious baller) class just out-hustled and out played us in the second half.

Brandon Paul, Richmond, and Leonard are insane talents. DJ is an outstanding role player and glue guy. AND all of those guys play D.

Then we got guys riding the bench right now that are pretty talented, too.

It seems like you know how good our talent is and yet you fail to realize that Bruce is not utilizing them correctly.

The motion offense hasn't worked for his recruits. These guys are not there for it. Guys like DJ, DMac, and Brandon need lanes to drive in. But they can't drive when there's all these back cuts being set and lanes being clogged. They don't spread the floor and Tisdale or Cole are always picking up fouls for setting bad screens. I don't see how this cannot be the fault of coaching?

I know people might say "lol at u talking about our recruiting classes." but my opinion on this team hasn't changed that much. I thought we could do a little better... but I knew we weren't the type of team to go deep.

I never said we should go deep in the tournament. I knew we were not a Final Four caliber team. But the fact that we cannot stay in the top 25 and we just got our ass handed to us by a freshman led team should anger us. This is not typical of an Illini team.

Have you ever held a job? Have you ever had expectations placed on you? If you under perform for 5 years straight, do you expect to keep your job still? At what point can we hold you accountable for missing your mark?

Atleast in the past we were able to say that Bruce was getting the most out of his players like he did with Chester, Warren Carter, Trent Meacham, etc.. but he's not even doing that now. He can't get the most out of the talented crop of guys he has.

Just remember me... and remember what I said when we are balling next year. And while you probably won't think that you were wrong to call for Weber's firing (yet) you'll hopefully be glad he stayed another year.

-Smak

Unless he makes the Final Four next year, I won't change my opinion. So I'll remember you if he makes it. That's the expectation you're placing on him.

[YAH trick YAH]

Weber is done in my eyes. It's not about his X's and O's. It's about his complete lack of social skills and the ability to relate to his players. He can't get through to them. All he does is yell and beat down on them and then at the end of the games they are all scared to shoot because if they miss, the are getting run over by the bus in the post game interview. He breeds losing in the way he manages the games. Everyone including him plays not to lose instead of play to win.

Players take some blame, but this has been happening ever since Dee left. Same shit, different players.

[ILLsmak]

Have you ever held a job? Have you ever had expectations placed on you? If you under perform for 5 years straight, do you expect to keep your job still? At what point can we hold you accountable for missing your mark?

Atleast in the past we were able to say that Bruce was getting the most out of his players like he did with Chester, Warren Carter, Trent Meacham, etc.. but he's not even doing that now. He can't get the most out of the talented crop of guys he has.

It's more like this... imagine Bruce was a writer or a recording artist and came out with a great album or best-selling book when he had a certain subject matter... or when he had a certain guy producing his tracks.

5 years is a long time, but look at it this way, man... 4 years is one class. And if you add in the Seniors that came out of the fresh/soph classes we had with the great team... those guys just weren't ready to lead us.

You don't stop being a good coach. If people are back cutting in driving lanes, that's not bad coaching that's stupid players. If anything they should be back cutting the other player out of that side of the floor. When we have certain high IQ players on the floor at the same time, our offense runs well.

That loss to Michigan, blame McCamey for being scared to shoot. A system is only a system. You run the system but you are also supposed to be creative and break out of it. Not only do our guys not run the system correctly... but they don't know how to improvise either. It makes no sense to scrap a system for the players when you are only gonna have guys there for 4 years at most.

You said you started following the Illini in 03, but we were good then... If you were watching them back in the 90s you'd understand how far we've come. We did well before that, too. But then we fell off majorly. I'm not saying I am accepting losing, but the proof that the system is good is that we have players making obvious mistakes over and over again and yet we are still in the game.

If Bruce made any mistake, it was letting those guys play. If this was my team I would have kicked McCamey and Davis off the team so that our Freshmen could grow correctly. But that's just me... that's something Bruce would never do. If you are a Senior, you play more than the others. But the fallacy in that is that people who run their rotation that way assume the upperclassmen understand the system better, but they don't...

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you... I think you make some good points on this forum, but firing Bruce is not right. It's something I never thought I'd hear from anyone. Especially the 'fans.'

And we will be Final four good next year.

That's all.

-Smak

[ballinhun8]

Well, here the time comes. I don't know if we can take back-to-back NIT years.

This could be a year where the depth on this team gives it a long run in the tourney.