The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

[Rasheed1]

yes you def can...



the only story I think that is a must to believe in literally is that Jesus is the son of God, died on the cross for your sins, etc

most of the others, Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve, etc, can be taken as symbolic...

You can call yourself whatever you like... But you arent really a christian if you dont even believe the book that supposed to be the word of God


Thats not real christianity ......that's cherry picking the stories you like and the ones you dont.


What denomination are you?

[-p.tiddy-]

You can call yourself whatever you like... But you arent really a christian if you dont even believe the book that supposed to be the word of God


Thats not real christianity ......that's cherry picking the stories you like and the ones you dont.


What denomination are you?

I'm not religious

it isn't cherry picking at all, some books are taken differently than others...you can read up on Christian symbolism all over the place...esp with stories like Adam and Eve

perhaps TO YOU a Christian has to take every word in the Bible as literal, but that certainly isn't the opinion of every Christian

[Rasheed1]

I have family members who are Christian, that do not take many of the stories literally...I am sure most of the scientists who are Christian are like that as well

or they will just tell you "what is important is the lesson that the Bible teaches, not weather or not it actually happened"

many don't really focus on it like that in a literal sense...they just focus on what is trying to be taught

^thats modern American christianity... in other words, its not really christianity at all

Its cherry picking certain stories and trying to have it both ways


I grew up christians just like that.. They pick and choice what is divine and what is just a story..


thats not real religion.


Most christians I have come into contact with (grew up in christian academy and was also an alter boy in catholic school), dont even know the bible that well. If I start talking about deuteronomy or leviticus, I get a blank stare.

[Rasheed1]

I'm not religious

oh then you should just STFU


Im wasting my time talking to you (as usual)


Serious REAL christians believe the bible literally...

Alot of the CASUAL christians cherry pick what they believe and what they dont.... they dont really attend church regularly, dont take the tenets all that seriously and they say things like "God knows what is in my heart"

[-p.tiddy-]

here is a good read Sheed:

http://scibel.com/scibel/materials_q...y%20exist.html

Everyone knows the story of how “Eve” was tempted by the “serpent” in Eden. After this, God said to the “serpent” : “And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." (Genesis 3:15). But Jesus plainly did not see this as being about literal snakes. It was his human enemies that he called a “brood of vipers” (Matthew 12:34; 23:33 etc), and of whom he said they were descended from “the devil” who was a “from the beginning” the “father of all lies” (John 8:44). The serpent in Genesis 3 is a symbol of a spiritual being, the devil or Satan, not a biological snake. This identification is explicitly confirmed also in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2. Some may suggest that perhaps the Genesis serpent was both a literal snake and a symbol of Satan. But the account refers only to one serpent, not two, and it would be odd to ascribe to a biological snake all the features (intelligence, relational language and moral accountability) which are unique to humans made in God’s image. As well as the serpent the book of Revelation also speaks of the “tree of life” (Rev 22:2, 14, 19) – putting it alongside the symbols of the river of life (Rev 22:1-2 compare John 4:10,14) and the heavenly city that symbolizes the church. [COLOR="Red"]The New Testament, then, shows that so much of Genesis 2-3 deals in symbolic language[/COLOR].

[COLOR="Red"]So where does that leave us with “Adam” and “Eve”? We have seen that in both the Genesis creation passages and in comments on these in the New Testament, the language is highly symbolic and the main point is the theological lesson.[/COLOR] Was it through a man or a woman that sin first came into the world? The fact that Paul’s own materials differ should make us wary of taking the account too literally. Yet, there was no sin before there were any humans – animals (including biological snakes) do not have moral responsibility. Logically, then, there must have been some first sin – a first occasion on which a clearly perceived moral law was broken. In this sense, then, there must have been an “Adam and Eve” – a humanity and life-source – in which this first came.

it's not cherry picking, the Bible is a big group of different books all thrown together and translated over time, you can't take all of them the same same way...

[hookul]

oh then you should just STFU


Im wasting my time talking to you (as usual)


Serious REAL christians believe the bible literally...

Alot of the CASUAL christians cherry pick what they believe and what they dont.... they dont really attend church regularly, dont take the tenets all that seriously and they say things like "God knows what is in my heart"

That you decide who is a "real" christian and who not is hilarious. You mistake one of many christian faith direction and proclaim them to be the only real christian direction. I am sure you know how many different groups and subgroups there are in any major religion - at the very least you have to know about protestants and the why/how they separated from the catholics as this is pretty much at the core what you guys are argueing about (taking bible literally vs. the spirit of the stories). Not to mention the many, many other directions the Christian faith can have. Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._denominations

I am sure each and every member of those subgroups would describe theirs as the "real" christian faith. no such thing exists.

[-p.tiddy-]

That you decide who is a "real" christian and who not is hilarious. You mistake one of many christian faith direction and proclaim them to be the only real christian direction. I am sure you know how many different groups and subgroups there are in any major religion - at the very least you have to know about protestants and the why/how they separated from the catholics as this is pretty much at the core what you guys are argueing about (taking bible literally vs. the spirit of the stories). Not to mention the many, many other directions the Christian faith can have. Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._denominations

I am sure each and every member of those subgroups would describe theirs as the "real" christian faith. no such thing exists.

no, you can only be a REAL Christian if you think that Eve was LITERALLY created from one of Adam ribs, and that they LITERALLY talked to an actual snake, and that the apple wasn't symbolic of anything, it was really just a fckin apple that God didn't want them to touch...

[Rasheed1]

That you decide who is a "real" christian and who not is hilarious. You mistake one of many christian faith direction and proclaim them to be the only real christian direction. I am sure you know how many different groups and subgroups there are in any major religion - at the very least you have to know about protestants and the why/how they separated from the catholics as this is pretty much at the core what you guys are argueing about (taking bible literally vs. the spirit of the stories). Not to mention the many, many other directions the Christian faith can have. Have a look here:

It has nothing to do with subgroups .....

Each subgroup has a set of beliefs

Each subgroup expects it adherents to follow ALL of their tenets... Not just some

Any group or denomination you join will have a whole set of beliefs they expect you follow..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._denominations

I am sure each and every member of those subgroups would describe theirs as the "real" christian faith. no such thing exists.

I agree, to christians each group is the real thing.... But none of those groups allow you to believe what you want and disregard what you dont believe in ...


it doesnt work like that

[hookul]

It has nothing to do with subgroups .....

Each subgroup has a set of beliefs

Each subgroup expects it adherents to follow ALL of their tenets... Not just some

Any group or denomination you join will have a whole set of beliefs they expect you follow..









I agree, to christians each group is the real thing.... But none of those groups allow you to believe what you want and disregard what you dont believe in ...


it doesnt work like that

But that's not the point. The point is that in the large set of denominations, their might either be one that already fits your believe system, including many of the very progressive protestant ones which do clearly state and recognize that the bible is written by hear-say stories from humans prone to error.

More importantly, being of a certain "faith" is not some kind of natural law that one just has to accept as a given. In the strictest sense, I can setup my own christian faith system tomorrow and start a new "religion". There is very little stopping me. Also, strictly speaking all you need to do to call yourself a christian if you want it is to believe in the central teaching of Jesus: "BE NICE"!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Second-Comin.../dp/0099535521

God really is coming, and he is going to be pissed. Having left his son in charge, God treated himself to a well-earned break around the height of the Renaissance. A good time to go fishing. He returns in 2011 to find things on earth haven't gone quite to plan...

The world has been rendered a human toilet: genocide; starvation; people obsessed with vacuous celebrity culture; 'and,' God points out, 'there are ****ing Christians everywhere.' God hates Christians. There's only one thing for it. They're sending the kid back.

JC, reborn, is a struggling musician in New York City helping people as best as he can. Gathering disciples along the way - a motley collection of basket cases, stoners and alcoholics - he realises his best chance to win hearts and minds may lie in a TV talent contest. American Pop Star is the number one show in America, the unholy creation of English record executive Steven Stelfox... a man who's more than a match for the Son of God

Or even if you might not even believe he was Son of God but just a smart rabbi philosopher who as a normal human being incorporated from his travels some eastern buddhist teachings into the jewish believe system. Just like some buddhist denominations do not consider buddha to be a god or supernatural but a mere human philosopher who said some really smart things

[-p.tiddy-]

Also, strictly speaking all you need to do to call yourself a christian if you want it is to believe in the central teaching of Jesus: "BE NICE"!

of the Christians I know and are close to, they would say that you have to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and that is all you have to do to be "saved"...(to be a Christian)

to them it comes down to that, the other stuff is details...and yes those details can decide which denom you are but they don't decide if you are a "REAL Christian" or not...

[LJJ]

This whole debate on real Christianity versus false Christianity is cracking me up. Continue.

[Nick Young]

Ancient Jews knew about the big bang 5000 years before scientists even figured it out

[Rasheed1]

But that's not the point. The point is that in the large set of denominations, their might either be one that already fits your believe system, including many of the very progressive protestant ones which do clearly state and recognize that the bible is written by hear-say stories from humans prone to error.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying... It doesnt matter what denomination you happen to be...

Each denomination expects its followers to believe their WHOLE philosophy. If you are a catholic, and don't literally believe in the catholic bible? The catholics who do will object to your beliefs.... The religious officials will also... you probably wont get excommunicated over it, but your belief system does not jibe with the doctrine of the church..


if you look at some the other major religions, you see that most of them, whatever their sect or specific beliefs system. they follow their tenets 100%

Like I said, alot of christians are casually so. The people who believe the stuff in the OP are more fundamental hard core religious people...

You can indeed set up your own christian faith tomorrow, and then you will the arbiter of who is really an adherent to your new religion and who is not.... I'm saying the officials and serious christians believe in that stuff in OP and that is why I say they are the real christians, and casual christians are not... The religious doctrine is in line with the fundamentalists not the casual modern christians who try to differentiate between what is OK to believe and what is not...

christians will tell you word of God is divine.. They will tell you God never changes...

[Nick Young]

To all christians in this thread

Jesus was a cool guy, he taught the same shit Siddhartha Gautama, Plato and Confuscious taught.

But Christianity is a religion created 300 years after Jesus died by Roman marketing execs. They rewrote the bible adding parts, and taking out parts they didn't like. They manufactured Christianity to be a religion with the most mass appeal of any religion and reach all subjects in the roman empire. The "christian" holidays today are actually druidic and celtic holidays mostly. JESUS WAS NOT BORN ON DECEMBER 25TH SO WHY DO YOU CELEBRATE THAT DAY AS THE DAY OF HIS BIRTH WHEN ALL HISTORY AND THE BIBLE ITSELF PROVES THAT JESUS WASNT BORN DECEMBER 25TH!


IN OTHER WORDS

The religion christians follow today is not the religion of jesus, but the religion manufactured by a bunch of old roman men. It is really sad so many people have such blind belief in a religion that history tells us is manufactured bullshit.

[-p.tiddy-]

[COLOR="Red"]Each denomination expects its followers to believe their WHOLE philosophy.[/COLOR] If you are a catholic, and don't literally believe in the catholic bible? The catholics who do will object to your beliefs.... The religious officials will also... you probably wont get excommunicated over it, but your belief system does not jibe with the doctrine of the church..

he is pointing out that some denoms take certain books as symbolic and not literal...