Shutter Island - Spoilers

[sunsfan1357]

This movie has been out for how long now? Stop complaining about damn spoilers. If someone REALLY wanted to see this movie and REALLY cared about knowing what happened they would've seen it already, at the very least asked somone about it that probably gave some stuff away. And yes the trailer did make it obvious about what happens with Leo in the movie.

As for the conspiracy, I think it's totally possible. Leo's last line I think was meant to give the whole situation some ambiguity to leave the audience arguing about what the possibilities could have been. Alas, that is what we are doing now.

[sunsfan1357]

Ummm...the DVD came out less than a week ago. And obviously some people here who haven't seen it yet were annoyed, so yeah. It's not that hard to give people a spoiler warning, or NOT POST SPOILERS IN THE ****ING THREAD TITLE. That's a spoiler people can't avoid. It's just inconsiderate.

The spoiler in the thread title is legit to complain about, but Dooms already said he screwed up. I just think the complaining is taking away from what can be a legitimate debate as to what happened with the movie. I always see people getting pissed at others who don't read through the thread and bring up points that have already been brought up, this is the same case. I got a little annoyed, but then again everyone else did. Whatevs.

Going through that thread Dooms posted on IMDB has me going back and forth towards whether he is sane or not. From the book and what the filmmakers said it appears that Leo is indeed insane but its equally intriguing looking at the other perspective.

[Doomsday Dallas]

So now you think the filmmakers are in on it too?

Don't forget, Andrew had been there for two years. And before being there, it's assumed that he was in other institutions(since SI was the "last stop" for patients other facilities couldn't deal with). The doctor knew everything about his story. Why did he say it? As a trigger. For the truth. That point is actually pretty accurate and doesn't lend itself to being some sort of grand conspiracy.

I can't take that list seriously anyway. That guy is twisting things. Such as the first "fact", about the cigarettes beginning the drugging process. That isn't a fact, that's wild speculation.

You still haven't explained the anagrams. Think about it. If he's sane, that means before the supposed "drugging process" he already knew about Andrew Laeddis. The guy who burned his apartment down just so happened to have a name that was an anagram to his. Then, he's searching for a missing patient, who just so happens to have a name which is an anagram for his wife's name. The Rule of Four.

C'mon. Obviously we aren't going to get anywhere, because as everyone here knows, you have a genetic predisposition towards wild conspiracy theories.

Here is the deal... I've done a little bit of research on the subject of Nazi's coming to America right after WWII... specifically scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

So I think the movie does have an underlying message of how the NAZI's weren't completely defeated... they actually did some "legal immigration" as that Nazi doctor suggested.


Also... it's no mystery that there were many mind control experiments taking place in the 1950's that were government / CIA sponsored.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/artic...-travesty.html

That's a decent article^

16. When Teddy meets the female doctor in the cave, the doctor indicates how the hospital can use a person's past traumas against them. I think this is key to understanding what happened. Teddy had THREE traumas and fears, and the conspirators manipulated these traumas and fears, and using drugs, pushed Teddy to believe in something that wasn't true.
17. Notice how the nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters". I think the doctor is alluding to the fact that "traumas" can be exploiting to make anyone crazy.

from the forum I posted in the OP^


I can probably explain the anagrams but I forget the exact point in the movie where Leo mentions Andrew Laeddis's name. I will admit that's the only flaw in the "conspiracy" theory... But everything else beyond that makes sense to me.

again from the OP:

14. Notice that when the guard and Chuck go to bring the attacked patient to the infirmary, the guard says to Teddy, "no, not you, not you". This prompts Teddy to go looking for Laeddis. Then notice the lights go out and Teddy is forced to use matches (Laeddis's favorite thing) to go look for Laeddis. Notice there are also voices saying "Laeddis", "Laeddis". I think all of this is an elaborate setup used to "suggest" memories to Teddy and start making him think that his obsession with Laeddis is itself crazy. I believe the soft voices saying "Laeddis" are in fact real, and from the conspirators.

[RoseCity07]

According to the Bluray special features, in interviews with Scorsese, Lehane, and the actors, he was indeed insane. So we can put this stupid debate to rest.

I don't know man, I watched those special features. Which one said that? I didn't watch all of them, but I watched the one that pointed out why the guards were mugging him when he first got to the island, and how it was a give away when his partner took forever to unholster his weapon.

[Lamar Doom]

Here is the deal... I've done a little bit of research

awwww shit.

Add me to the list of people who think your thread title is dicky. I did dislike that they billed it as a "surprise ending" because you're automatically trying to process clues instead of just watching the story unfold.

[niko]

Doomsday, i know conspiracy theories give you a hard on, but this movie's plot did not contain one. You are rewriting the movie to a movie you wanted to see. the actual movie plot did not mean to indicate a conspiracy, and if they did to you, you either misinterpeted or the movie just did a bad job of explaining. Sorry, you are wrong. Sometimes in life people are wrong. Here, you are wrong. PERIOD.

The fact the movie banged you over the head for like 10 minutes at the end to the detriment of the movie explaining this at the end makes it funny for me. You watched that and thought CONSPIRACY! they praticially hit you with a hammer as if the audience were morons so you wouldnt think this.

and dont come back with AHA - thats what they... NO. They meant he was nuts. That's it.

[RedBlackAttack]

Okay God Dammit... I f*cked up.

I still think judging by the trailer it should of been obvious to anybody.


When you see something like that in the trailer.... I think a few of your brain cells should click together and maybe you would ask yourself... "Oh it looks like the character Leo plays could be crazy?"

It was the whole damn twist of the movie. Yes, when I saw the trailer, I thought that maybe that was going to be the plot. I also guessed that he was the 67th inmate almost immediately when watching.

However, there is a big difference between assuming that a plot twist is going to take a certain turn, guessing what that turn will be, and having someone who has seen the movie tell you what happens.

Although I was pretty certain that the movie was going to head in that direction, I didn't know until I actually saw it happen, because movies have surprised me before.

Bottom line: It isn't cool to spoil movies for those who haven't seen them and I would venture to say that a large portion of ISH hasn't seen Shutter Island since it just came out on video. If I hadn't seen the movie already and I glanced at your thread title, I would have been a lot more angry.

Not trying to dump on you... You should just be a little more considerate.

[Fatal9]

**** you mother****er.

[pete's montreux]

dooms about to get lynched Mississippi style

[Doomsday Dallas]

Doomsday, i know conspiracy theories give you a hard on, but this movie's plot did not contain one. You are rewriting the movie to a movie you wanted to see. the actual movie plot did not mean to indicate a conspiracy, and if they did to you, you either misinterpeted or the movie just did a bad job of explaining. Sorry, you are wrong. Sometimes in life people are wrong. Here, you are wrong. PERIOD.

The fact the movie banged you over the head for like 10 minutes at the end to the detriment of the movie explaining this at the end makes it funny for me. You watched that and thought CONSPIRACY! they praticially hit you with a hammer as if the audience were morons so you wouldnt think this.

and dont come back with AHA - thats what they... NO. They meant he was nuts. That's it.

Well I've looked around on the internet a little bit and I see that there are others that think the movie can be interpreted the same way.

Really what it comes down to is if that woman in the cave was real because she basically explained the conspiracy theory to the audience...

Now basically the movie does come down to weather or not Leo's visions of his (possible delusional) conspiracy theory is real or not... that's just a fact, and I'll be honest that towards the end of movie it seems like Leo really was crazy, but there are plenty of situations in the movie that suggest that he wasn't.... they just made him that way for two reasons:

1.) It was part of mind control experiment... they were doing groundbreaking tests on Leo.

2.) Leo was getting close to exposing the corruption and they had to stop him.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8124417AAOaZB1


I still don't understand why they would let the most dangerous person on the island role play to those lengths... they are just gonna let him walk around the island even when he has been there for 2 years?

and why did the doctor say: "Why are you wet Baby?"

[PistolPete]

Just saw this movie last night. Wasn't as good as expected. I kinda figured that Leo was not getting off that island somehow. If he was crazy, then you must admit he had one of the best imaginations of the patient's there.

But then you have to ask yourself, if the Doctor told him that he was the most dangerous prisoner on the island, why would he not be locked up in Cell Block C to be begin with?? This little role-playing experiment could have ended a lot more differently, and more bloody.

[niko]

Well I've looked around on the internet a little bit and I see that there are others that think the movie can be interpreted the same way.

Really what it comes down to is if that woman in the cave was real because she basically explained the conspiracy theory to the audience...

Now basically the movie does come down to weather or not Leo's visions of his (possible delusional) conspiracy theory is real or not... that's just a fact, and I'll be honest that towards the end of movie it seems like Leo really was crazy, but there are plenty of situations in the movie that suggest that he wasn't.... they just made him that way for two reasons:

1.) It was part of mind control experiment... they were doing groundbreaking tests on Leo.

2.) Leo was getting close to exposing the corruption and they had to stop him.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8124417AAOaZB1


I still don't understand why they would let the most dangerous person on the island role play to those lengths... they are just gonna let him walk around the island even when he has been there for 2 years?

and why did the doctor say: "Why are you wet Baby?"

Because he was wet.

And again, you are choosing to interpet the movie in a way neither the author nor the director intended it to be interpeted. I dont get why you are being so thick about it. if i paint a picture of a cow, you can tell me for a thousand years its a pig, but its a COW. i wrote it and i know.

[RedBlackAttack]

They let him go through with the roleplay because the only other option left was to lobotomize him, and Cawley wanted that to be an absolute last resort.

Exactly. The role-playing thing was the final, last-ditch effort by the institution to bring Leo's delusions to his attention. It was the only thing that they had left and it seemed like it may have worked, but as we know, he reverted back to his delusions the next day.

When they led him off at the end of the movie, it was for Leo's lobotomy.

The movie was pretty clear-cut. All of these conspiracy ideas have no basis, especially since the book makes it clear that there was no conspiracy and he was, in fact, crazy.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I just explained why that likely was. He knew every detail of Andrew's case, and used that as a jumping off point to the big reveal.

They let him go through with the roleplay because the only other option left was to lobotomize him, and Cawley wanted that to be an absolute last resort. You didn't notice how "Chuck" was with him pretty much the entire time, and was constantly asking him "Are you OK, Boss?" That's because he was his psychiatrist, and was concerned about him. You didn't notice how all the guards regarded him? With extreme apprehension, as if "Teddy" was dangerous and might attack them at any time? Ding ding ding!

Just watch it again and pay attention to the last look Cawley gives to Andrew as he walks off to be lobotomized. It's a look of deep sadness. A look of someone who had all his eggs in one basket, and failed. Not the look of someone who had just successfully mind-****ed someone.

All the "sane" theorists have is speculation. There is no fact.

You want to talk about a last look?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsgUa5m1yk
SHUTTER ISLAND ENDING


To live as a monster or to die as a good man?.... The Good Man was Leo, they were the monsters... and Leo wasn't about to let himself become their monster... he would rather die knowing he was a good man.

The nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters".

[Doomsday Dallas]

More speculation and interpretation. No facts.

The nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters".


that doesn't mean anything to you?


Oh and by the way.... did I mention he was a Nazi.