Does anyone actually have Shaq ahead of Duncan all time?

[clutchinho]

Neither of them have a DPOY. Shaq was a dominant force, individual players don't get swept

Dominant no doubt, but what makes him more dominant than Duncan? because he dunks the ball harder??

If he was so dominant, why couldnt he lead his team to at least one win in a series. How could he couldn't get past the Spurs or Duncan until Kobe was averaging 30 a game

[Dragonyeuw]

1. Check Shaq's support he had on those titles, compared with Duncan's, Shaq has almost always had the undisputed best guard in the game in his title seasons.

2. More MVPs, More All D teams, more DPOYS, more All NBA teams

3. Dominant force from 92-06 , what sort of dominant force gets swept 5 times in 6 seasons with the amount of help he had? Shaq was dominant in 2000-2002, get it right



If anything, Shaq has never really been able to prove he can get past Duncan in his prime. His first title season(99-00) came in a season where Duncan missed the playoffs as the defending champs. and the following 2 title years, it was Kobe's play that the Spurs had no answer for.

1.Shaq had Kobe, then who? Derek Fisher? Rick Fox? Robery Horry? Then with Miami he had Wade, then who? Jason Williams? Antoine Walker? An aging Payton and Mourning? You really gonna act like those players are some cut above the role players Duncan has played with? Kobe wasn't considered the best guard in the game when LA won in 2000,BTW. Duncan for the 2005 and 2007 titles had two legit all-star players in Parker and Ginobli next to him, and role players easily on par with the role players Shaq played with in LA and Miami.

2. Again, Nash has two MVPs. I guess he's better than Shaq too? Granted Duncan has been the better defender, no argument there. But the difference in their defense isn't as wide as the overwhelming gap between them in scoring prowess. Peak Shaq was UNSTOPPABLE on offense. DPOY? Duncan doesn't have any DPOY awards. Duncan has 10 first team selections.Shaq 8 first team. Whoopty-do big difference, nor is it an apples to apples comparison as Shaq's come at the center position, Duncan's at the forward spot for the most part.

3. Shaq, as an INDIVIDUAL talent, was dominant from day one. You're crazy if you think otherwise. He got swept 5 times.... Do you forget to who, and when? 95 Rockets, as an up and coming talent, against Hakeem playing GOAT level basketball. The 72-10 Bulls, widely regarded as one of the great teams ever. He got swept by Duncan's Spurs in 99 with a still raw Kobe as the next best player. I guess I don't have to remind you in 2001, when both were at their peak, Shaq swept Duncan? And while Kobe was great in that series, let's not act like Shaq wasn't a dominant force inside against BOTH Duncan and Robinson.

- So it was Kobe's play that was the deciding factor against the Spurs in 2001 and 2002, perhaps you should add a dose of context to that by looking up Shaq's stats against the Spurs in 2001 and 2002 playing inside against BOTH Duncan and Robinson as I said before. Spurs really had no answer for Shaq either.

[Dragonyeuw]

If he was so dominant, why couldnt he lead his team to at least one win in a series. How could he couldn't get past the Spurs or Duncan until Kobe was averaging 30 a game

Just maybe, because the Spurs were an overall better team than the Lakers until Kobe developed into a great player? Are you saying that Shaq isn't that dominant because he couldn't get past a superior team until he had enough help? The 2000's Lakers were very top heavy with Shaq and Kobe, and then a HUGE dropoff in talent and production. The Spurs, from 1-12 were a better overall team than the Lakers.

This is also like saying Michael Jordan or Lebron James weren't 'that dominant' until they actually had good enough talent around them to win titles.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan

In that order, imo. Depending how TD plays from here on out, I may move him up.

[edrick]

People are already forgetting how dominate prime Shaq was.

[MavAlbert]

People are already forgetting how dominate prime Shaq was.

Dominant.

[jzek]

I do (but that's because I don't like Timmay [I think he's boring to watch]).

[jzek]

Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan

In that order, imo. Depending how TD plays from here on out, I may move him up.

Why do you have Shaq over Hakeem? Just curious. As far as I'm concerned, Shaq has one MAJOR weakness (you can't put him at the end of close games since he can't hit FTs) whereas Hakeem has none and obliterated every single dominant center in his prime (Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, etc.)

No weakness > one MAJOR weakness

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why do you have Shaq over Hakeem? Just curious. As far as I'm concerned, Shaq has one MAJOR weakness (you can't put him at the end of close games since he can't hit FTs) whereas Hakeem has none and obliterated every single dominant center in his prime (Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, etc.)

No weakness > one MAJOR weakness

Mostly for longevity reasons. Shaq had a longer prime and, especially at his peak, played well above his standards in every NBA Finals he was in.

As far as careers go, they're about equal. I wouldn't have a problem with anyone ranking Hakeem over Shaq.

[daprunus]

The longevity is not a factor here. O'neal played great so many years.

At least I don't consider Duncan better for play with regularity 3 or 4 more years than Shaq.

[ispin69]

Clutchinho
April 2013

[pauk]

Everybody?

Shaq was just a much more dominant player / better player, probably the most dominant player i ever seen....

[cookiemonster]

Prime - Shaq easily
Longetivity- Timmy

I don't quite get the longevity argument. Duncan is 37 now. Wasn't Shaq 38 when he was in Phoenix?

[jzek]

Does anyone know the head to head stats between Shaq and Duncan? Stats for both as well as wins/losses?

[dh144498]

Does anyone know the head to head stats between Shaq and Duncan? Stats for both as well as wins/losses?

regular season:

Shaq: 18 wins, 14 loses
21.7 - 10.6 - 1.7 2.7 blks 53.3%FG

Duncan: 14 wins 14 loses
22.0 - 12.1 - 2.7 1.4blks 45.2%FG


playoffs:

Shaq: 15w 15l
22.4 - 12.8 - 2.2 2.8blks 52.6%FG

Duncan: 15w 15l
25.6 - 13.0 - 3.8 2.4blks 48.5%FG