Mexican vs. Racist Angry white minutemen

[Scientist]

my figures are from the bureau of labor statistics as of May 2009. and it is for california alone. The national median is about $8.91.


Many people actually argue these are falsely inflated, as they are only the reported figures and do not include the more unscrupulous people who would not self-report.

I don't know what other parts of the state pay, but if it's anywhere near what my fathers options were then it's way below. But you have to agree that even at 8.91/hr they're not getting paid pennies but rather a good 16-17k a year income tax free.

[boozehound]

I don't know what other parts of the state pay, but if it's anywhere near what my fathers options were then it's way below. But you have to agree that even at 8.91/hr they're not getting paid pennies but rather a good 16-17k a year income tax free.

why do you think its income tax free? Almost certainly the management companies are taking taxes out of their wages (which they cannot get back if they are illegal, even though most of them would be entitled to a full refund plus EIC). The studies I have seen show that illegals pay more into the system (income tax, SS, sales tax, etc) than they get back. Let me see if I can find them real quick.

as usual, its a mixed bag (in that state and local govts are likely to lose money rendering services to illegals, but its overall a small fraction of the cost of those same services for legal residents).

But as far as actual taxation

Taxes

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.[3] Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[3] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[15]
Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico and current Director of the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization, asserts that illegal immigrants are only a drain on government services when they are incapable of paying taxes; and that this incapacity is the result of restrictive federal policies that require proof of citizenship. He further argues that the US economy has "crucial" need for migrant workers, and that the current debate must acknowledge this rather than just focus on enforcement.[16]
The Internal Revenue Service issues an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code. Federal tax law prohibits the IRS from sharing data with other government agencies including the INS. In 2006 1.4 million people used ITIN when filing taxes, of which more than half were illegal immigrants.[17]
[edit]Social security
Illegal immigrants pay social security payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits. During 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an "earnings suspense file" -- an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to undocumented workers who will never claim their benefits."[13]
The Social Security Administration has stated that it believes unauthorized work by non-citizens is a major cause of wage items being posted as erroneous wage reports instead of on an individual's earnings record.[18] When Social Security numbers are already in use; names do not match the numbers or the numbers are fake, or the person of record is too old, young, dead etc., the earnings reported to the Social Security Agency are put in an Earnings Suspense file [ESF]. The Social Security spends about $100 million a year and corrects all but about 2% of these. From Tax Years (TY) 1937 through 2003 the ESF had accumulated about 255 million mismatched wage reports, representing $520 billion in wages and about $75 billion in employment taxes paid into the over $1.5 trillion in the Social Security Trust funds. As of October 2005, approximately 8.8 million wage reports, representing $57.8 billion in wages remained unresolved in the suspense file for TY 2003.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economi..._United_States

[boozehound]

BTW as an asian of unknown origin (to me), you might be interested to know that the US Border Patrol started out as the Chinese Exclusion Agency, which were responsible for keeping the unwanted and illegal immigrants from china and other asian countries out of the US (but who were critically important for the low wage, menial labor jobs across the US west). Sound familiar?


also, when did your ancestors come to the states? And can I see their legal immigration documentation?

[Scientist]

You really have no clue unless you experience in first hand. Those that illegals do not do it through management companies generally, they are referred to them from within the farm owners association. You pay them in cash at $15 minimum but generally it's more because it isn't an hourly rate but per pound or box harvested. I want to see the link to your hourly wage statistic in california as i have a hard time believing that's true.

[Scientist]

BTW as an asian of unknown origin (to me), you might be interested to know that the US Border Patrol started out as the Chinese Exclusion Agency, which were responsible for keeping the unwanted and illegal immigrants from china and other asian countries out of the US (but who were critically important for the low wage, menial labor jobs across the US west). Sound familiar?


also, when did your ancestors come to the states? And can I see their legal immigration documentation?

I am first generation to be born in this country, both my father and mother came here in 1976. So that throws wheyheys argument completely out the door. And because this isn't any of my information i will not reveal any of it. I know that it took them 7 years to be granted citizenship. It isn't cheap to file that type of paperwork either. For mexicans to think they can come over illegally is wrong. They should stand in line like the rest of the world to become a US citizen.

[boozehound]

You really have no clue unless you experience in first hand. Those that illegals do not do it through management companies generally, they are referred to them from within the farm owners association. You pay them in cash at $15 minimum but generally it's more because it isn't an hourly rate but per pound or box harvested. I want to see the link to your hourly wage statistic in california as i have a hard time believing that's true.

Believe me, I have lived all over the SW (and the greatlakes, where there is a huge demand for farmworkers for the apples and cherries). Ive seen it firsthand, from the day laborers to the farm workers. and, sure, much of the money crossing hands is unreported (much like most of the small scale construction industry), but if the GAO estimates that 50-75% of illegals pay local, state and federal income tax (and 7 billion in social security), there is a pretty good indication that a lot of the money earned by illegals is, in fact, taxed.

as for the stat, its from the bureau of labor statistics. Not very hard to find, as the govt has loads of data on this kind of stuff all over the net.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes452092.htm

[Scientist]

Based simply off of the link, what percentage of illegal immigrants do you think work in the industry? Because a lot of people have greatly overrated that number. And the pay is not bad to be honest, no one is paying them pennies. And again, those numbers are low for one reason. All farmers pay their labor workers based on pounds yielded. This number is always round down for the government subsidies to kick in.

[JaggerCommaMick]

Thanks Fox News.

[G-Funk]

I think this has something more to this than just illegals hurting the ecomony. They have been here for decades and no one ever said anything, the politians just turn their cheek. And now after 911 and the economy downfall they want to use poor illegal immigrants as scapegoats and what makes this sad is that u have gullible ppl eating all this shit that the media is feeding them, not to mention the racists who are getting in on this. So my question is Whats going to happen when the economy issues are relieved and everyone takes back those great jobs? Who's gonna clean their toilets? Who's gonna crop their food, who's gonna wash their car!

I bet after the protesting, they are gonna drive themselves to Mc Donalds get served by a illegal then drive to a car wash to get their chrysler washed by a illegal & go home to see a illgeal mowing their lawn.