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Old 07-27-2012, 08:03 AM   #61
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Yes... Because who needs context?


We should be able to piece together statements to form whatever kind of sentiments best fit our narrative of what we'd like our political opponents to say. To hell with intent!

Both sides do it and people take it for the truth.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:31 AM   #62
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

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Originally Posted by Godzuki
because busting your ass in college generally entitles you to a good lifestyle regardless of higher taxes where you'll be driving a Benz and the taco bell kid will be driving a Kia Rio regardless of higher taxes on you. he'll probably have to work twice as hard as you in life to make ends meet.

nobody wants to be taxed higher but somebody has to be, and to me it makes the most sense to tax the rich more. i think if you were in the shoes of people working 40 hour/week layman jobs struggling to make ends meet you'd get it, in fact most rich people would change their perspective i bet.

That's definitely not true. How much you make with a college degree is not set in stone. It varies so extremely with what subject you majored in. Job market is a huge factor. People who got college degrees don't just automatically get a free pass to an easy life. You make it sound like all you have to do is get a college degree and then bam, everything is set for you. That simply isn't the case. Well then the kid working at Taco Bell should have had higher career ambitions or put himself in a better position to succeed. They could be working while going to school to pay for it. Even if they can only take a couple of classes per semester because of having to work 40 hours a week, in 5-6 years (however long it takes them) they will have a degree that they can try to better their lives with.

There are scholarship opportunities coming out of high school where they can have all of their school paid for, grants (if their family does not make a lot of money), loans, etc. It is so easy to go to college these days that everybody can do it. And as far as working twice as hard- give me a break, lol. Taco Bell is the same shit everyday; there is no pressure to perform. While if you are actually pursuing a career it is something different everyday. You have to find out how to apply the knowledge from school while continuing to be up to date on current knowledge which grows everyday. Also, it isn't like you just work your 40 hours and call it a week. Some weeks you have to work 50+ hours while still only being paid for 40. Hell, some of those investment bankers that everybody loves to shit on have to work 80-100 hours a week; at least until they make partner 20 years down the road. The point I'm making is that just because somebody got a degree doesn't mean that they automatically have the easy life. They worked hard, busting their asses to be where they are. The Taco Bell kid doesn't get paid a lot because the job is something anybody could do; it doesn't require any special skills or talents and it should be rewarded as such. There is nothing wrong with working at Taco Bell if you want to, but you also shouldn't be expecting to live the life of somebody who went to college and tried to make something of themselves.

The top 10% of earners already pay 70% of taxes; my goodness, how much more do you want them to pay, lol? I don't think those who work at Taco Bell should pay a higher percentage, but that doesn't mean that the wealthier should have to pay a higher percentage either. If everybody gets taxed 'x' percent then everybody is having to pay the same. That is what is fair and equal. Of course, it is a lot easier to say they should pay more when it isn't your money. I'm a college kid; it's not like I'm out there making $250k+ already, lol. My views are not based on what I am experiencing myself but what I think is fair and equal, because I know if I was in a wealthy person's shoes it would be frustrating.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:16 AM   #63
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

I think it's very, very interesting scenario here. A lot of people here hate tax increases (especially for them obviously) but are perfectly willing to pay extra consumption tax to save jobs (and I believe a lot of people are already doing so for agricultural products).

Frankly I think the best thing to do is get appropriate retraining schemes for outsourced workers (or indeed, any unemployed workers). People keep banging on about the education system failures but education doesn't have to stop when you reach 22.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:34 AM   #64
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juges8932
That's definitely not true. How much you make with a college degree is not set in stone. It varies so extremely with what subject you majored in. Job market is a huge factor. People who got college degrees don't just automatically get a free pass to an easy life. You make it sound like all you have to do is get a college degree and then bam, everything is set for you. That simply isn't the case. Well then the kid working at Taco Bell should have had higher career ambitions or put himself in a better position to succeed. They could be working while going to school to pay for it. Even if they can only take a couple of classes per semester because of having to work 40 hours a week, in 5-6 years (however long it takes them) they will have a degree that they can try to better their lives with.

There are scholarship opportunities coming out of high school where they can have all of their school paid for, grants (if their family does not make a lot of money), loans, etc. It is so easy to go to college these days that everybody can do it. And as far as working twice as hard- give me a break, lol. Taco Bell is the same shit everyday; there is no pressure to perform. While if you are actually pursuing a career it is something different everyday. You have to find out how to apply the knowledge from school while continuing to be up to date on current knowledge which grows everyday. Also, it isn't like you just work your 40 hours and call it a week. Some weeks you have to work 50+ hours while still only being paid for 40. Hell, some of those investment bankers that everybody loves to shit on have to work 80-100 hours a week; at least until they make partner 20 years down the road. The point I'm making is that just because somebody got a degree doesn't mean that they automatically have the easy life. They worked hard, busting their asses to be where they are. The Taco Bell kid doesn't get paid a lot because the job is something anybody could do; it doesn't require any special skills or talents and it should be rewarded as such. There is nothing wrong with working at Taco Bell if you want to, but you also shouldn't be expecting to live the life of somebody who went to college and tried to make something of themselves.

The top 10% of earners already pay 70% of taxes; my goodness, how much more do you want them to pay, lol? I don't think those who work at Taco Bell should pay a higher percentage, but that doesn't mean that the wealthier should have to pay a higher percentage either. If everybody gets taxed 'x' percent then everybody is having to pay the same. That is what is fair and equal. Of course, it is a lot easier to say they should pay more when it isn't your money. I'm a college kid; it's not like I'm out there making $250k+ already, lol. My views are not based on what I am experiencing myself but what I think is fair and equal, because I know if I was in a wealthy person's shoes it would be frustrating.


The top 10% pay the most taxes because they make the most money. Their tax rate is generally lower than the bottom 90% however. A person in the bottom 90 percentile will usually pay a greater proportion of his income to taxes than those in the top 10%.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:18 AM   #65
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The top 10% pay the most taxes because they make the most money. Their tax rate is generally lower than the bottom 90% however. A person in the bottom 90 percentile will usually pay a greater proportion of his income to taxes than those in the top 10%.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/10/04/...-pay-in-taxes/

I understand they make the most money, hence paying the most. My point is that if there was a flat tax rate, then it would be equal across the board.

How is that so? I used these two sites in order to do my following calculations:

Marginal tax rates from 2011: http://taxes.about.com/od/Federal-In...1-Tax-Year.htm

How much the top 'x'% earn: http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011...-make-percent/

How much each of the brackets pay in total percentage:

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Old 07-27-2012, 10:37 AM   #66
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

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Originally Posted by Balla_Status
I'm sure corporations are smart enough to figure out how to "even the playing field."

Yes because history is littered with examples of this happening.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:56 PM   #67
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Both sides do it and people take it for the truth.
Have to say that I have never seen an entire campaign be centered around something so blatantly NOT what was intended by the opposing candidate. Literally every new Romney ad that I have seen revolves around Obama saying that, if you have a small business, "you didn't build that."

Anyone with half a brain knows that he didn't say that. Is Romney really going to hang his proverbial hat on something so clearly contrived?

There are plenty of actual issues that factually separate these two guys. There is no need to just make stuff up. And I have a hard time believing someone as bright as you thinks this is a good thing.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:10 PM   #68
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Both sides do it and people take it for the truth.


both sides may do it but not to the same degree. its like Fox news to CNN, to pretend they're remotely the same for right and the left respectively is laughable. CNN is much more centered than Fox news is partisan, even if many on the right will call CNN liberal. you can't keep acting like since both sides do something the amount/degree doesn't matter since it does. its just like how you tried to blame the Democrats for accepting NRA money when they accepted so little of it compared to the right wing. sure you want neither party to accept any of it but those aren't options right now and we're choosing between the lesser of 2 evils at this point.

everyone wants a viable 3rd party candidate but its not happening right now so might as well live in and deal with the present.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:22 PM   #69
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Romney sucks, he's like the John Kerry of the GOP...an out of touch northeastern millionaire.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:28 PM   #70
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

no one is attacking his success.

they're attacking his greed and methods of cheating out the po man.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:29 PM   #71
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Have to say that I have never seen an entire campaign be centered around something so blatantly NOT what was intended by the opposing candidate. Literally every new Romney ad that I have seen revolves around Obama saying that, if you have a small business, "you didn't build that."

Anyone with half a brain knows that he didn't say that. Is Romney really going to hang his proverbial hat on something so clearly contrived?

There are plenty of actual issues that factually separate these two guys. There is no need to just make stuff up. And I have a hard time believing someone as bright as you thinks this is a good thing.


never mind that what Obama said is pretty much what Romney said to Olympic athletes at the Salt Lake City games.

Quote:
You Olympians, however, know you didn't get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We've already cheered the Olympians, let's also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities.


oh and BTW, we will be hearing a lot about how Mitt "saved" the SLC Olympics. But what he won't be trumpeting to the hills is that he needed nearly $350 million in Federal dollars to help manage them.

Last edited by kentatm : 07-27-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:08 AM   #72
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Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
never mind that what Obama said is pretty much what Romney said to Olympic athletes at the Salt Lake City games.
Right. I'm not even focusing on the statement itself by Obama. If there are people out there that don't see the benefits of taxation and how we all do band together to help make this country what it is, and they prefer to see the U.S. as a complete free-for-all where you win or lose by yourself and thus should never contemplate how our society is actually structured... As misguided as it is, if people want to believe that, go right ahead.

My issue is with cutting up a speech and completely changing the entire point of a statement with editing tricks. Our political dialogue is all ready woefully inadequate and generally based on the most superficial bullsh!t that isn't really likely to impact any of our lives.

If this is where things are headed, we may be longing for the days of Rev. Wright or Bill Ayers a decade from now. As infantile as that discussion was, at least it was based on an actual narrative that some (stupid) people find important.

If we are just going to copy and paste together makeshift speeches and ideas that absolutely DO NOT represent a candidate in any way, shape or form? It doesn't get much more pathetic than that.
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