eurobasket2009

[Hyman]

You have no knowledge of players like Vasileiadis or Pelekanos at all.

Yeah and you do by saying that Vasileaiadis was probably Malagas best player or by saying that Rubio is a similar player to Calathes

As I've said its impossible you are european. Not a chance

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Yeah and you do by saying that Vasileaiadis was probably Malagas best player or by saying that Rubio is a similar player to Calathes

As I've said its impossible you are european. Not a chance

Vasileiadis is 6th in ACB in scoring, 8th in ranking and his team with the smallest budget in the league is fighting for a playoff spot. He's the go to player of his team and he almost practically by himself beat Real Madrid. All this while playing most the year with several nagging injuries. I never compared Rubio to Calathes. Very rude of you to make up crap like that. I just said that Rubio is overrated and he's not that much better than Calathes as people say. STOP twisting my words.

If you would notice I have said over and over that Calathes is not even good enough to be on Greece's national team. And if you were unaware of it, Greece's coach said he only made the team because of a slew of injuries and that he was not good enough yet to make the team if not for that. For example, to me he's something like the 7th best Greek point guard.

1. Spanoulis (3 straight years now he is the starting point guard of PAO so don't even start your BS with me)
2. Papaloukas
3. Diamantidis
4. Charalmbidis
5. Papamakarios
6. Batis
7. Calathes

The point stands how overrated Rubio is. He's better than the 7th best Greek point guard, but not by a whole lot better. Also, several coaches have already said this year that Pelekanos is the best defender in the Euroleague. He's also undoubtedly the most athletic player in the Euroleague. But what the hell do you know?

You brag about the ACB like nothing else matters in Europe and it is really sad and pathetic how arrogant and nationalistic you are. Spanish homers are even more arrogant than NBA homers. And your lack of basketball knowledge is disturbing.

[la bomba]

Vasileiadis is 6th in ACB in scoring, 8th in ranking and his team with the smallest budget in the league is fighting for a playoff spot. He's the go to player of his team and he almost practically by himself beat Real Madrid. All this while playing most the year with several nagging injuries. I never compared Rubio to Calathes. Very rude of you to make up crap like that. I just said that Rubio is overrated and he's not that much better than Calathes as people say. STOP twisting my words.

If you would notice I have said over and over that Calathes is not even good enough to be on Greece's national team. And if you were unaware of it, Greece's coach said he only made the team because of a slew of injuries and that he was not good enough yet to make the team if not for that. For example, to me he's something like the 7th best Greek point guard.

1. Spanoulis (3 straight years now he is the starting point guard of PAO so don't even start your BS with me)
2. Papaloukas
3. Diamantidis
4. Charalmbidis
5. Papamakarios
6. Batis
7. Calathes

The point stands how overrated Rubio is. He's better than the 7th best Greek point guard, but not by a whole lot better. Also, several coaches have already said this year that Pelekanos is the best defender in the Euroleague. He's also undoubtedly the most athletic player in the Euroleague. But what the hell do you know?

You brag about the ACB like nothing else matters in Europe and it is really sad and pathetic how arrogant and nationalistic you are. Spanish homers are even more arrogant than NBA homers. And your lack of basketball knowledge is disturbing.

first to say that rubio is only slightly better than calathes and that therefore manolis papamakarios is better than rubio is both foolish and blind.Spanoulis is more like Navarro a 2 more than a 1 he is a scorer,thats why diamantidis plays point at PAO. Ricky is not overrated he is an amazing player,he is not the only one responsible for barca playing so well but a major part.I am not spanish so I am not one of those homers,you on the other hand are Greek and are doing exactly what you accuse the others of doing.Braging about the grrek league or the greek players.We all rate what we know as best because its what we know and support,everyone is a bit bias. I know vasiliades is a great player,the reson for my disagreement was what you said about him being malaga's best player the year he was there,that was clearly not true.
I know you dont rate acb, but got acb.com and watch barca games,they really are destroying everyone.Rubio has so much influence,barca feel it when sada is on for rubio.and i like sada.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

first to say that rubio is only slightly better than calathes and that therefore manolis papamakarios is better than rubio is both foolish and blind.Spanoulis is more like Navarro a 2 more than a 1 he is a scorer,thats why diamantidis plays point at PAO. Ricky is not overrated he is an amazing player,he is not the only one responsible for barca playing so well but a major part.I am not spanish so I am not one of those homers,you on the other hand are Greek and are doing exactly what you accuse the others of doing.Braging about the grrek league or the greek players.We all rate what we know as best because its what we know and support,everyone is a bit bias. I know vasiliades is a great player,the reson for my disagreement was what you said about him being malaga's best player the year he was there,that was clearly not true.
I know you dont rate acb, but got acb.com and watch barca games,they really are destroying everyone.Rubio has so much influence,barca feel it when sada is on for rubio.and i like sada.

I never said Rubio is only a little better than Calathes. For the tenth time I said Rubio is not as much better as him than people say. Please stop twisting my words. I also never said Papamakarios is better than Rubio I don't know where the hell you got that from.

Actually Papamakarios is a much better shooter by miles and is equally competitive and good on defense but of course overall he's not as good as Rubio. And I never said anything like that. He's more comparable to the level of Cabezas or someone like that.

I never said Vasileiadis was Malaga's best player for that season. How many times do I have to explain this to you? I meant when he was at Malaga he was the best (as in biggest talent or most talented/gifted) player they had and was the best player in terms of what he could. I did not say he was the guy who had the best season there. Do you not have the ability to comprehend such a simple concept? Now tell me who at Malaga then is more gifted and better than Kostas? Cabezas is probably the closest and sorry but no. And others argued Berni..........that's got to be a joke.

I am not saying Rubio sucks....I am saying he is overrated, which he is. He's pretty average for a starting point guard in the Euroleague at this point. He plays in a great team so it makes him look good because he can just pass and play D and it hides all his weaknesses. Put him in a mid level club and he would be in trouble. He's great for HIS AGE - for a 19 year old, NOT for all players overall of any age.

And yet he's very overrated, he is NOT the next Drazen, nor the next Maravich, nor the next Nash, yet everyone keeps saying he is. And mentioning not watching teams and players - well it's not me my friend. It's the rest of you. I watch the ACB all the time. The rest of you however clearly have zero knowledge about clubs outside of Spain.

For example again you insist that Diamantidis plays point and Spanoulis the two. WRONG AGAIN. Diamantidis plays the two and the three and Spanoulis is for 3 straight years now the starting point guard. It is obvious that you have not actually seen a PAO game in the last 3 years and neither has Hyman. So stop lecturing me about not watching games.

And the comments in this thread that players like Pelekanos, Vasileiadis, and Kaimakoglou suck are laughable. Any one of them would have no problem at all making Spain's national team. In fact all of them would be the starting small forward on Spain's national team. So as far as I am concerned there is a lot of extreme homerism in this thread and it's not coming from me.

[la bomba]

I never said Rubio is only a little better than Calathes. For the tenth time I said Rubio is not as much better as him than people say. Please stop twisting my words. I also never said Papamakarios is better than Rubio I don't know where the hell you got that from.

Actually Papamakarios is a much better shooter by miles and is equally competitive and good on defense but of course overall he's not as good as Rubio. And I never said anything like that. He's more comparable to the level of Cabezas or someone like that.

I never said Vasileiadis was Malaga's best player for that season. How many times do I have to explain this to you? I meant when he was at Malaga he was the best (as in biggest talent or most talented/gifted) player they had and was the best player in terms of what he could. I did not say he was the guy who had the best season there. Do you not have the ability to comprehend such a simple concept? Now tell me who at Malaga then is more gifted and better than Kostas? Cabezas is probably the closest and sorry but no. And others argued Berni..........that's got to be a joke.

I am not saying Rubio sucks....I am saying he is overrated, which he is. He's pretty average for a starting point guard in the Euroleague at this point. He plays in a great team so it makes him look good because he can just pass and play D and it hides all his weaknesses. Put him in a mid level club and he would be in trouble. He's great for HIS AGE - for a 19 year old, NOT for all players overall of any age.

And yet he's very overrated, he is NOT the next Drazen, nor the next Maravich, nor the next Nash, yet everyone keeps saying he is. And mentioning not watching teams and players - well it's not me my friend. It's the rest of you. I watch the ACB all the time. The rest of you however clearly have zero knowledge about clubs outside of Spain.

For example again you insist that Diamantidis plays point and Spanoulis the two. WRONG AGAIN. Diamantidis plays the two and the three and Spanoulis is for 3 straight years now the starting point guard. It is obvious that you have not actually seen a PAO game in the last 3 years and neither has Hyman. So stop lecturing me about not watching games.

And the comments in this thread that players like Pelekanos, Vasileiadis, and Kaimakoglou suck are laughable. Any one of them would have no problem at all making Spain's national team. In fact all of them would be the starting small forward on Spain's national team. So as far as I am concerned there is a lot of extreme homerism in this thread and it's not coming from me.

I watch the greek league. First if you read your original post you did say vasiliedis was malaga's best player that season,only now do you clarify that in your opinion he was the most talented(different) yes possibly as far as raw talent goes.I am not going to discuss the rest because I disagree with most.Rubio was winning trophies with DKV a few years ago and as for his shooting look at his 3pt shooting statistics of late.Anyway I respect your opinions,even if we disagree on most.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

So Aris won its group in Eurocup. Panellinios won its group in Eurocup over the Spanish club Gran Canaria.

In Euroleague Maroussi qualified for top 16 with all those "joke scrub players" like Pelekanos and Kaimakoglou.

Also keep in mind that Greek clubs like Peristeri, Kolossus, and PAOK are about the same level as Aris is and Panionios and Panellinios are similar to the level of Maroussi.

So much for all the crap being said about the Greek League here. And it really makes me laugh hysterically that some would consider Adriatic and Italian League better than Greek League. This must be a complete joke. Just look at the results of teams from those leagues and compare it to the Greek clubs and it's not even close.

And as I pointed out before even the low level Greek clubs like Kavala and Trikala are decent this year. I think you guys need to admit that Greek League is a lot stronger than you say it is.

We will see how Maroussi does in the top 16 but to be perfectly honest about it they do not seem to be any worse than Malaga at all and yet people here were laughing at that suggestion. Maroussi qualified with a 4-6 record and would have had 5-5 if not for a crazy shot in one game and that was in a group with CSKA, Baskonia, and Maccabi and even though clubs like Roma and Olimpija are no good they are very experienced Euroleague clubs and regulars, while Maroussi was a Euroleague rookie. So even those teams should have been tough for them.

True that they could not beat Baskonia or CSKA, but they would have beaten CSKA if not for a lucky shot. The first game against Baskonia they got blown out at home but the whole team was suffering with swine flu around that time. In the game at Baskonia they battled and it was a fairly close game and was not an easy win for Baskonia, and even the very elite Spanish teams very rarely win there.

So what was that about how awful Greek teams are and how weak Greek league is? How Adriatic and Italian leagues are better? How horrible players like Pelekanos and Kaimakoglou are? How Greek League should never even be mentioned with ACB?

And all that about Maroussi only gets 200-300 at all their games and their attendance is a joke. They got 5,100 attendance against Maccabi.

Like I said, you keep posting nonsense and you will eventually be owned and exposed.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I watch the greek league. First if you read your original post you did say vasiliedis was malaga's best player that season,only now do you clarify that in your opinion he was the most talented(different) yes possibly as far as raw talent goes.I am not going to discuss the rest because I disagree with most.Rubio was winning trophies with DKV a few years ago and as for his shooting look at his 3pt shooting statistics of late.Anyway I respect your opinions,even if we disagree on most.

Rubio is great at what he does best which is play defense and create and pass. No denying that. He is certainly very great in those areas. But in pretty much every other facet of the game he is merely average or even below average to poor. In truth as an overall and complete player he is basically in sum pretty typical of normal starting Euroleague point guards as a complete player.

This is a fact and people that deny that are either biased, non objective, or lack basketball knowledge. The reason why Rubio is so successful with Barca is because he only will have all his strengths multiplied there and none of his weaknesses exposed there.

You put him on a mid level Euroleague team and make him lead the team and put average players around him and you will find out extremely quick that he is 19 years old and has a lot of improvement to do. That's a fact. I am saying nothing but the truth and being fair and honest about Rubio when I assess him.

Great player for his age certainly no one is disputing that, but if he was 25 you would hardly even of heard his name mentioned. So let's not get carried away here. And we still have no way of knowing how good he will be in development. Just look at how many players were actually at their peak even at around 20 years old and never amounted to what they were projected to be.

Rubio actually is not going to really be a better defender or a better passer. So right there his development curve is already limited. I still say he is another Rajon Rondo (which is great don't get me wrong) but no way is he another Maravich, Petrovich, or Nash.

[Maga_1]

Last year, in my opinion the DKV team wasn't that good, and when he played, he played very very well. Didn't he?
It's a fact that the Bar

[Lakas Fan Yo]

[QUOTE=Maga_1]Last year, in my opinion the DKV team wasn't that good, and when he played, he played very very well. Didn't he?
It's a fact that the Bar

[Hyman]

So Aris won its group in Eurocup. Panellinios won its group in Eurocup over the Spanish club Gran Canaria.

In Euroleague Maroussi qualified for top 16 with all those "joke scrub players" like Pelekanos and Kaimakoglou.

Also keep in mind that Greek clubs like Peristeri, Kolossus, and PAOK are about the same level as Aris is and Panionios and Panellinios are similar to the level of Maroussi.

So much for all the crap being said about the Greek League here. And it really makes me laugh hysterically that some would consider Adriatic and Italian League better than Greek League. This must be a complete joke. Just look at the results of teams from those leagues and compare it to the Greek clubs and it's not even close.

And as I pointed out before even the low level Greek clubs like Kavala and Trikala are decent this year. I think you guys need to admit that Greek League is a lot stronger than you say it is.

We will see how Maroussi does in the top 16 but to be perfectly honest about it they do not seem to be any worse than Malaga at all and yet people here were laughing at that suggestion. Maroussi qualified with a 4-6 record and would have had 5-5 if not for a crazy shot in one game and that was in a group with CSKA, Baskonia, and Maccabi and even though clubs like Roma and Olimpija are no good they are very experienced Euroleague clubs and regulars, while Maroussi was a Euroleague rookie. So even those teams should have been tough for them.

True that they could not beat Baskonia or CSKA, but they would have beaten CSKA if not for a lucky shot. The first game against Baskonia they got blown out at home but the whole team was suffering with swine flu around that time. In the game at Baskonia they battled and it was a fairly close game and was not an easy win for Baskonia, and even the very elite Spanish teams very rarely win there.

So what was that about how awful Greek teams are and how weak Greek league is? How Adriatic and Italian leagues are better? How horrible players like Pelekanos and Kaimakoglou are? How Greek League should never even be mentioned with ACB?

And all that about Maroussi only gets 200-300 at all their games and their attendance is a joke. They got 5,100 attendance against Maccabi.

Like I said, you keep posting nonsense and you will eventually be owned and exposed.

You were saying that greek league was nowadays better than spanish ACB, not that it was at the same level as Italian or Adriatic league

You are making your paranoia here. The truth is that spanish league has 8 teams alive at European competitions and greek league has 5 alive, which is an enormous success for them

IMO comparing the level of Maroussi to Malaga's is laughable, despite Malaga has its worst team of the last years. Malaga is a serious top 8 contender, for Maroussi top 16 is a high succes.

I want to remember that Malaga has a 7-10 record at the spanish league and a 7-3 record at Euroleague. Malaga won Olympiakos by nealry 20 points at Spain. I think its a different class team to Maroussi honestly.

Malaga is paid 33 to 1 for winning the euroleague. Maroussi is paid 350 to 1. I think this is quite significant

However I've never said that the greek league was not better today than italian or adriatic.

In reference to Pelekanos, he is an average player. Good for Panionios, scrub at a top team. As he showed at Madrid or Olympiakos

[Hyman]

I thought he played poorly last year. But my point is that Rubio is to me the same player as Rajon Rondo. Great in their own way but they must play in a big team with a lot of other great players.

That's a HUGE difference from a guy like Nash (that Rubio is compared to) who can be put on a terrible team and make them very good by himself. In a way it is probably easier for a good team even to win with Rondo or Rubio because of defense, but if they had to lead a lesser team they would not be able to do it because their offense is way too limited.

If I was Rubio there is no way in hell I would ever play for the Wolves for example. He would have to lead with offense and make a crap team go and that would not work for him. He is just like Rondo and needs stars around him.

So now you go from saying that Rubio was a media hyped creation, to comparing him to an all-star guard like Rondo? Wow

If Rubio turned to be a Rondo, it would be a great success. A very legit 5 draft pick and one of the biggest european PG's ever

Very difficult to compare him with Petrovic because they are totally diffrent players, in fact they dont play in the same position. One was a pure scorer and a shooter. Rubio is neither a scorer or a shooter.

Rubio IMO has potential in NBA for 14 points-12 assists-5 rebounds- 2.5 steals, with above 40% average shooting with a great defense and in a winner franchise. That would make him a Pau Gasol level player on the PG

Last, but not least, Rubio has been named week 10 euroleague MVP for his performance against Siena. 14 points, 10 assists, 4 steals, 3 rebounds, 1 TO in 25 minutes. Not bad

Bar

[Lakas Fan Yo]

You were saying that greek league was nowadays better than spanish ACB, not that it was at the same level as Italian or Adriatic league

You are making your paranoia here. The truth is that spanish league has 8 teams alive at European competitions and greek league has 5 alive, which is an enormous success for them

IMO comparing the level of Maroussi to Malaga's is laughable, despite Malaga has its worst team of the last years. Malaga is a serious top 8 contender, for Maroussi top 16 is a high succes.

I want to remember that Malaga has a 7-10 record at the spanish league and a 7-3 record at Euroleague. Malaga won Olympiakos by nealry 20 points at Spain. I think its a different class team to Maroussi honestly.

Malaga is paid 33 to 1 for winning the euroleague. Maroussi is paid 350 to 1. I think this is quite significant

However I've never said that the greek league was not better today than italian or adriatic.

In reference to Pelekanos, he is an average player. Good for Panionios, scrub at a top team. As he showed at Madrid or Olympiakos

Pelekanos would be the starting SF for Spain's national team.

[Maga_1]

hyman, it's a little bit to much that stats ..
I think maybe 14 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds would be good.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

[QUOTE=Hyman]So now you go from saying that Rubio was a media hyped creation, to comparing him to an all-star guard like Rondo? Wow

If Rubio turned to be a Rondo, it would be a great success. A very legit 5 draft pick and one of the biggest european PG's ever

Very difficult to compare him with Petrovic because they are totally diffrent players, in fact they dont play in the same position. One was a pure scorer and a shooter. Rubio is neither a scorer or a shooter.

Rubio IMO has potential in NBA for 14 points-12 assists-5 rebounds- 2.5 steals, with above 40% average shooting with a great defense and in a winner franchise. That would make him a Pau Gasol level player on the PG

Last, but not least, Rubio has been named week 10 euroleague MVP for his performance against Siena. 14 points, 10 assists, 4 steals, 3 rebounds, 1 TO in 25 minutes. Not bad

Bar

[la bomba]

So Aris won its group in Eurocup. Panellinios won its group in Eurocup over the Spanish club Gran Canaria.

In Euroleague Maroussi qualified for top 16 with all those "joke scrub players" like Pelekanos and Kaimakoglou.

Also keep in mind that Greek clubs like Peristeri, Kolossus, and PAOK are about the same level as Aris is and Panionios and Panellinios are similar to the level of Maroussi.

So much for all the crap being said about the Greek League here. And it really makes me laugh hysterically that some would consider Adriatic and Italian League better than Greek League. This must be a complete joke. Just look at the results of teams from those leagues and compare it to the Greek clubs and it's not even close.

And as I pointed out before even the low level Greek clubs like Kavala and Trikala are decent this year. I think you guys need to admit that Greek League is a lot stronger than you say it is.

We will see how Maroussi does in the top 16 but to be perfectly honest about it they do not seem to be any worse than Malaga at all and yet people here were laughing at that suggestion. Maroussi qualified with a 4-6 record and would have had 5-5 if not for a crazy shot in one game and that was in a group with CSKA, Baskonia, and Maccabi and even though clubs like Roma and Olimpija are no good they are very experienced Euroleague clubs and regulars, while Maroussi was a Euroleague rookie. So even those teams should have been tough for them.

True that they could not beat Baskonia or CSKA, but they would have beaten CSKA if not for a lucky shot. The first game against Baskonia they got blown out at home but the whole team was suffering with swine flu around that time. In the game at Baskonia they battled and it was a fairly close game and was not an easy win for Baskonia, and even the very elite Spanish teams very rarely win there.

So what was that about how awful Greek teams are and how weak Greek league is? How Adriatic and Italian leagues are better? How horrible players like Pelekanos and Kaimakoglou are? How Greek League should never even be mentioned with ACB?

And all that about Maroussi only gets 200-300 at all their games and their attendance is a joke. They got 5,100 attendance against Maccabi.

Like I said, you keep posting nonsense and you will eventually be owned and exposed.

you are totally paranoid man. I never said the greek league is a joke or any of those players were a joke,I said that the spanish ACB is the best in europe and i maintain that. ou cant say that marrousi would have been 5 5 if not for a langdon 3 because then for a langdon 3 Caja laboral didnt finish top.if it goes in in time it makes no difference. Point is no one or atleast I am not and you can go through all my posts , dishing the greek league my argument and the only one I made was that the ACB is stronger.
As for the attendence yes that was good if i am not mistaken they played at oaka. but it was a do or die game,how many would they have against a bamberg say?Anyway Real madrid finished ahead of pana, do I think real madrid are better? no.Barca will have pana in its top 16 group,we will see how they fair,but again it is not about the individual clubs but the strength of the league ,and I know you believe the greek league is stronger and fair enough,I will respect that ,but for me the spanish league is stronger,so respect that in turn instead of throwing all this stuff like a n 8 year old.
Ricky against Siena was inmense!