So, according to Lebron #23 should be retired by the league. But #6 and #32 are okay?

[kennethgriffin]

and let me guess, kobe is comparable? jordan and gretzky are on the same exact tier in terms of dominating their sport

uummm no

kobe isnt close to gretzky.. no one is

would be like barry bonds ( without steroid scandels ) and having won a bunch of titles

its not fair for anyone in team sports to compare to gretzky


look at the all time scoring list for hockey


Rank Player PTS
1.Wayne Gretzky 2857
2.Mark Messier 1887
3.Gordie Howe 1850
4.Ron Francis 1798
5.Marcel Dionne 1771
6.Jaromir Jagr 1755
7.Steve Yzerman 1755
8.Mario Lemieux 1723
9.Joe Sakic 1641
10.Phil Esposito 1590



now take a look at the all time goal scoring list

Rank Player G
1.Wayne Gretzky 894
2.Gordie Howe 801
3.Brett Hull 741
4.Marcel Dionne 731
5.Phil Esposito 717
6.Mike Gartner 708
7.Jaromir Jagr 705
8.Mark Messier 694
9.Steve Yzerman 692
10.Mario Lemieux 690


even if gretzky ( who is the all time goal scoring leader ) never scored a goal........ he'd still have

1963 points

76 more points than #2 all time points leader Mark Messier






gretzky is the god of athletes

there is no one that compares

[jstern]

He has Oscar Robertson on his Mt. Rushmore, and I believe he also has Dr. J in his top ten.

He just happens to see Jordan in a different light than those. I mean, you can't criticizing Lebron for having a single player's number retired, a player who is considered by the vast majority the GOAT time, rather than picking 2, 3, 5 other players.

I mean, are we now going to criticize Lebron for this? Would it be as special if we now just started retiring league wise the number of numerous players from each era?

I'm having trouble explaining my thoughts, I'm so hungry, but basically, this is not something to worry about. It's just more random Lebron criticism.

[plowking]

OP actually makes a thread about this, yet has never called Wilt out on all the stupid shit he's said?

[D-Rose]

Stop what, do you understand the point of the thread? That detail doesn't effect this topic.

Stop spreading misinformation and pushing a topic that's not even true!

[cltcfn2924]

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]in terms of how much more someone dominated their sport.. yes gretzky is on a level heads and shoulders above jordan

gretzky is like a successful/clutch version of wilt chamberlain

holds all the records
had all the success
got all the awards


the equivelant of gretzky dropping 200 points in a season is like someone in the nba averaging 50ppg... and gretzky did it 4 times


Hart memorial = MVP
conn smyth = playoff MVP
Ted Lindsay = Most outstanding player
art ross = top point scorer
lou kaplan = ROTY



Awards
1978-79 WHA Lou Kaplan Trophy
1979-80 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1980-81 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1980-81 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1981-82 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1981-82 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1981-82 NHL Ted Lindsay Award
1982-83 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1982-83 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1982-83 NHL Ted Lindsay Award
1983-84 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1983-84 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1983-84 NHL Ted Lindsay Award
1984-85 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1984-85 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy
1984-85 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1984-85 NHL Ted Lindsay Award
1985-86 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1985-86 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1986-87 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1986-87 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1986-87 NHL Ted Lindsay Award
1987-88 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy
1988-89 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1989-90 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1990-91 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1990-91 NHL Lady Byng Memorial Trophy
1991-92 NHL Lady Byng Memorial Trophy
1993-94 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1993-94 NHL Lady Byng Memorial Trophy
1998-99 NHL Lady Byng Memorial Trophy


Championships
(Minimum 1 playoff game)
1984 Edmonton Oilers (NHL)
1985 Edmonton Oilers (NHL)
1987 Edmonton Oilers (NHL)
1988 Edmonton Oilers (NHL)

All-Star Games
1980 NHL
1981 NHL
1982 NHL
1983 NHL
1984 NHL
1985 NHL
1986 NHL
1988 NHL
1989 NHL
1990 NHL
1991 NHL
1992 NHL
1993 NHL
1994 NHL
1996 NHL
1997 NHL
1998 NHL
1999 NHL




Goals
1978-79 WHA 46 (3)
1979-80 NHL 51 (5)
1980-81 NHL 55 (4)
1981-82 NHL 92 (1)
1982-83 NHL 71 (1)
1983-84 NHL 87 (1)
1984-85 NHL 73 (1)
1985-86 NHL 52 (6)
1986-87 NHL 62 (1)
1988-89 NHL 54 (4)
Career NHL 894 (1)

Assists
1978-79 WHA 64 (5)
1979-80 NHL 86 (1)
1980-81 NHL 109 (1)
1981-82 NHL 120 (1)
1982-83 NHL 125 (1)
1983-84 NHL 118 (1)
1984-85 NHL 135 (1)
1985-86 NHL 163 (1)
1986-87 NHL 121 (1)
1987-88 NHL 109 (1)
1988-89 NHL 114 (1)
1989-90 NHL 102 (1)
1990-91 NHL 122 (1)
1991-92 NHL 90 (1)
1993-94 NHL 92 (1)
1994-95 NHL 37 (9)
1995-96 NHL 79 (5)
1996-97 NHL 72 (1)
1997-98 NHL 67 (1)
1998-99 NHL 53 (6)
Career NHL 1963 (1)

Points
1978-79 WHA 110 (3)
1979-80 NHL 137 (1)
1980-81 NHL 164 (1)
1981-82 NHL 212 (1)
1982-83 NHL 196 (1)
1983-84 NHL 205 (1)
1984-85 NHL 208 (1)
1985-86 NHL 215 (1)
1986-87 NHL 183 (1)
1987-88 NHL 149 (2)
1988-89 NHL 168 (2)
1989-90 NHL 142 (1)
1990-91 NHL 163 (1)
1991-92 NHL 121 (3)
1993-94 NHL 130 (1)
1996-97 NHL 97 (4)
1997-98 NHL 90 (3)
Career NHL 2857 (1)

Regular season records (40)[edit]
Most goals: 894 in 1,487 games
Most goals, including playoffs: 1,016 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games
Most goals, one season: 92 in 1981

[pauk]

Because not only was MJ the greatest ever, but also by far the most prominent ever, arguably the greatest athlete and sports figure ever, the most meaningful one, he took the sport to its absolute highest limit... you can go to the most random place on earth and ask any random person if they heard about michael jordan and the answer will most likely be not only yes but they will also say he was the greatest basketball player ever... even my senile bosnian grandma knows of that name, not kidding...

Dr j or russell or magic were nowhere near that prominent.... if one player deserves to have his number or whatever retired, it would be him.... and after that then maaaaybe you can start arguing about someone else....

[cltcfn2924]

Because not only was MJ the greatest ever, but also by far the most prominent ever, arguably the greatest athlete and sports figure ever, the most meaningful one, he took the sport to its absolute highest limit... you can go to the most random place on earth and ask any random person if they heard about michael jordan and the answer will most likely be not only yes but they will also say he was the greatest basketball player ever... even my senile bosnian grandma knows of that name, not kidding...

Dr j or russell or magic were nowhere near that prominent.... if one player deserves to have his number or whatever retired, it would be him.... and after that then maaaaybe you can start arguing about someone else....

Oh, so you have to be a certain age now to respect Russell et al? Get lost.

[DStebb716]

This thread is pretty stupid. Other sports have just one number retired (99 in hockey and 42 in baseball). If you're going to retire one number in basketball it'd be 23, and that's what LeBron is getting at.

Mario Lemieux's number isn't retired in hockey (even though just about nobody wears it, but that's because 66 is a rare number).

[CavaliersFTW]

This thread is pretty stupid. Other sports have just one number retired (99 in hockey and 42 in baseball). If you're going to retire one number in basketball it'd be 23, and that's what LeBron is getting at.

Mario Lemieux's number isn't retired in hockey (even though just about nobody wears it, but that's because 66 is a rare number).

Jordan is no greater than Bill Russell, or Wilt Chamberlain, or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. There is no "if you had to choose just one number to retire..." He's got no clear-cut case to be above any of those guys.

[pauk]

Oh, so you have to be a certain age now to respect Russell et al? Get lost.

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity".
What Russell did, what Dr J did, what Magic did might have echoed somewhat in USA, but not enough to echo around like the legend that is MJ, especially not at that magnitude, around the world, around the universe... actually the more time that passes, the more time we spend watching basketball players today it just keeps echoing around more and more as you realize even more how great he was....


Those guys have the accolades, sure and were pioneers themselves... dont get me wrong, but they have not managed to shape that kindof vastly embossed path of a Michael Jordan.... all coaches, all players recognize him to mythological, godlike status, past or present.... ask Russell, Dr J & Magic themselves about Jordan and they will tell you very swiftly why he is the greatest ever and why they to think his jersey should be retired aswell etc... lots of quotes out there....

[Cocaine80s]

Does OP even post about the current NBA anymore?

NO one gives a **** about Wilt bruh

[kennethgriffin]

FYI, the name of this forum is Inside Hoops. Shees.

yea but its a discussion on what it takes to get your jersey retired league wide


so i'm comparing jordan to someone who DOES have his # retired league wide

DUH LOL

and just because its a basketball forum doesnt mean i have to side with a basketball player out of pure bias like other people

[CavaliersFTW]

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity".
What Russell did, what Dr J did, what Magic did might have echoed somewhat in USA, but not enough to echo around like the legend that is MJ, especially not at that magnitude... actually the more time that passes, the more time we spend watching basketball players today it just keeps echoing around more and more as you realize even more how great he was....

Russell accomplished more in basketball than Jordan did, when there were less accomplishments to be had.

Jordan as a player stood on the shoulders of giants, cut it with the cheesy Gladiator quote. His 'greatness' continues to exist to people today because he was just born at the right time, when cameras and the league started documenting games. If he played in the 60's he'd be an Elgin Baylor/Jerry West hybrid who you wouldn't give two shits about right now.

[DStebb716]

Jordan is no greater than Bill Russell, or Wilt Chamberlain, or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. There is no "if you had to choose just one number to retire..." He's got no clear-cut case to be above any of those guys.

Nostalgia is dumb. So is hanging on too tightly to something just because you were alive when it happened.

[pauk]

Russell accomplished more in basketball than Jordan did, when there were less accomplishments to be had.

Jordan as a player stood on the shoulders of giants, cut it with the cheesy Gladiator quote. His 'greatness' continues to exist to people today because he was just born at the right time, when cameras and the league started documenting games. If he played in the 60's he'd be an Elgin Baylor/Jerry West hybrid who you wouldn't give two shits about right now.

60s vs modern era.... Its a very touchy subject, look i respect basketball history, i love it and i know you respect it more than probably anybody i know here on ISH, you have great passion for old school ball, love your videos on youtube..... but please CavaliersFTW, i beg you to at least microscopically consider that basketball, NBA itself & basketball players just might have evolved, maaaaaybe........ seriously man, you can just watch 10 seconds of a 50s-60s & modern era game to realise there is a big difference, you would be lying to yourself if you didnt.... firstly in talent (physique/athleticism) and then in skill (ballhandling, shooting stroke/technique).... in reality, much more has changed since then... It doesnt mean i say/we say we should diminish what happened back then or something, no way, but that we should value it for its time.... it was just... a different time...

As far as MJ goes.... lets take a good look at prime/peak Michael Jordan shall we, on both ends.... could you just imagine what he would do in the 60s? I want you to be very honest? Please? Lets say that Michael Jordan with his modern era skills/talent (with that i mean say prime MJ got transported into the 60s) where even the worst team in the NBA averaged more possessions a game than even the team that averaged the most possessions a game in the modern era... just that would give you a very simple logical & factual hint that MJ would highly likely at least put up numbers that would maybe make even Wilts/Oscars numbers look miniscule, unfortunately... not to mention, his moves, training, basketball IQ, intangibles and so on and so on he would present for the 60s basketball world would be far beyond its time, it would be actually shocking to see for everybody else, he would be remembered as the most innovative player in NBA/Basketball history (or any sports history?)...... so even then, in different context Michael Jordan would/might still end up to be perhaps just as prominent (if not more?).... who knows right?