Is the Lebron vs Kobe debate pretty much settled?

[knicksman]

theres no shortcut to success. Youve got to learn the skills needed to win instead of just statpadding. Thats why eye test > stats.

[DMAVS41]

theres no shortcut to success. Youve got to learn the skills needed to win instead of just statpadding. Thats why eye test > stats.

What happens when two people use the "eye test" and come to different conclusions?

What do you say to the person that claims Andrew Wiggins is really good, for example?

Which seems to be a movement going on right now after he has a good game?

Do we go with their eye test? Do we go with the eye test of people that feel the opposite?

How do we settle it?

[julizaver]

We all saw dozens and dozens of topics comparing Lebron and Kobe a few years ago. The debate were endless back then. Is it settled now? Is there a clear consensus?

Too much die-hard fans here - I doubt any of them going to change their stance or opinion doesn't matter of the arguments. I have watched both players from their rookie seasons till now - For me it is not a big debate, Lebron is a better basketball player when you keep in mind that it is 5 on 5 game. Don't want to talk about one on one or skills - Kobe is more skillful, got better handling off the ball, but if I am to start a team I will choose Lebron and I am sure 9 from 10 coaches will choose to have Lebron instead of Kobe in their teams.

[julizaver]

What happens when two people use the "eye test" and come to different conclusions?

Do we go with their eye test? Do we go with the eye test of people that feel the opposite?

How do we settle it?

My "eye test" is:

1. Kobe is a volume scorer and although maybe a better shooter than Lebron his shot selection was not good, he made a lot of unusually tough shots instead of just pass the ball to a teammate.
2. Lebron is a willing passer, more efficient scorer, had awesome athleticism for his body and size.
3. Both players were not good shooters early on their careers.
4. Lebron stop playing defense in the recent years but his offensive contribution neglect that.
5. In terms of mentality Kobe doesn't afraid failure and critics as he had enormous ego (but missed a ton of clutch shots playing hero ball), while Lebron was somehow hesitant in the clutch and looks like he had some doubts (evidently in 2011 Finals). After 2011 he really start looking like a leader.
6. Last year Lebron single handily took Cavs to the Finals - never see Kobe performed in the postseason at such level. Also overall I consider Lebron better playoff performer than Kobe. When Kobe's shots were not falling he doesn't bring much to his team.

['Toine=MVP]

What happens when two people use the "eye test" and come to different conclusions?

What do you say to the person that claims Andrew Wiggins is really good, for example?

Which seems to be a movement going on right now after he has a good game?

Do we go with their eye test? Do we go with the eye test of people that feel the opposite?

How do we settle it?

It's all subjective. Trying to settle things objectively is a sign you don't get it at all. How does subjective popular opinion get settled? With time and argument, eventually a player's historic value to the league will settle somewhere. It definitely won't settle until at least a decade after the players prime has clearly ended, and in most cases will drop over time as it has with Kobe and will with LeBron. But you can't settle a subjective debate with facts. You can only use them to try to persuade others, which is the same as the eye test.

[bullettooth]

It was settled in 2011.

[Gus Hemmingway]

It was settled in 2011.

This


Kobe getting swept by Jason Terry in 2011 was the final straw that put Lebron over the top

[DMAVS41]

It's all subjective. Trying to settle things objectively is a sign you don't get it at all. How does subjective popular opinion get settled? With time and argument, eventually a player's historic value to the league will settle somewhere. It definitely won't settle until at least a decade after the players prime has clearly ended, and in most cases will drop over time as it has with Kobe and will with LeBron. But you can't settle a subjective debate with facts. You can only use them to try to persuade others, which is the same as the eye test.

I agree with this broadly and posted as much earlier.

However, my response was to a post claiming the "eye-test" is all you need...and that is, of course, simply false...

Two people can evaluate a player differently...I used Wiggins as an example because people here seem to think he's good...and people here seem to think he's not good

So I'd argue that something else should always be brought into the conversation other than merely "eye-test"...which amounts to personal preference too often...

And we know how biased we are as humans...so the type of people on here that evaluate players thinking they are free from confirmation bias or preference...just don't get it imo

[BallsOut]

2016 -

http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/sto...michael-jordan



2017 - http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/sto...es-kobe-bryant




2018 -
https://m.facebook.com/FirstTake/posts/1905404669519462

The people have spoken

['Toine=MVP]

I agree with this broadly and posted as much earlier.

However, my response was to a post claiming the "eye-test" is all you need...and that is, of course, simply false...

Two people can evaluate a player differently...I used Wiggins as an example because people here seem to think he's good...and people here seem to think he's not good

So I'd argue that something else should always be brought into the conversation other than merely "eye-test"...which amounts to personal preference too often...

And we know how biased we are as humans...so the type of people on here that evaluate players thinking they are free from confirmation bias or preference...just don't get it imo

I guess that's fair. But the stats, ring counts, etc are all personal preference too. But sure, to say eye-test is the best or only way to subjectively decide is silly.

[knicksman]

What happens when two people use the "eye test" and come to different conclusions?

What do you say to the person that claims Andrew Wiggins is really good, for example?

Which seems to be a movement going on right now after he has a good game?

Do we go with their eye test? Do we go with the eye test of people that feel the opposite?

How do we settle it?

Who cares if people have different evaluation? Just because people have different evaluation well now go the easy route which is stats. LOL i can be a scout right now if stats is all they need to evaluate players.

[Rico2016]

This


Kobe getting swept by Jason Terry in 2011 was the final straw that put Lebron over the top

Good one

And yes I agree the debate is long over. If anyone denies it just Google 2016 NBA Finals and be amazed. LeBron is close to Jordan level. Kobe is close to Isiah Thomas level. Very different.

[knicksman]

when most players, whose opinions hold more weight than the statnerds, prefer kobe, then it isnt over.

[aj1987]

I would just like to counterpoint if I may however, that Kobe has less finals appearances and less total playoff games than LeBron in what many would consider a tougher conference for the majority of their respective careers. Ergo less opportunities to show his stuff and for example, light a team up for 40+.

1. LeBron played only 19 games more than Kobe in the PO's. Kobe has played in 220 games in the PO's. That's nearly 3 seasons worth of basketball in the PO's alone. That's also why I listed the number of games they played. There are idiots here (obviously not you, I've been posting these numbers for a while), who claim that the numbers are cherrypicked or what not.

2. I posted their averaged as well, which would fact in the more number of games that LeBron has played. LeBron has a significantly higher averaged in the PO's and the Finals on much better efficiency.

3. As for the conference being easier, that's exactly why I posted their Finals numbers, where, once again, LeBron completely owns Kobe.

I didn't even get a chance to do their game 7 stats and elimination game stats, where LeBron's numbers pretty much makes Kobe's numbers look like shit. It wouldn't even be fair.

statnerd is back to posting stats

Retard is back to posting retarded shit.

Lol.

AJ coming thru with the reddit spam

Yeah, that's not from Reddit and I see that you're coming through with your usual autistic posts.

Kobe

He is 10/20 in clutch situations

His free throw shooting is 4/5

His true shooting is 56.4%

Assists per 36: 7.5 assists

TO per 36: 1.5 TO

So, the person who posted that on Reddit defined clutch as the last two minutes with the margin being within 3.

Guess what:

https://www.basketball-reference.com....fcgi?id=gxJ3t

As usual, Brick turds keep faking stats.

[Gileraracer]

AJ out here catching feelings