Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2010, 05:04 PM   #1
RaininThrees
Meats Don't Clash
 
RaininThrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,042
Default "No hope for the Raptors. None."

From M. Grange in today's G&M. Sheds some light on the "outside influences" Colangelos was speaking of (a new, NY-based GF?).

Quote:
No hope for the Raptors. None.

Michael Grange

There is no reason for optimism around the Toronto Raptors right now.

None.

The star player is playing some of his worst basketball of the season at the worst possible time, and worse still, seems determined to share the blame as widely as possible.

The star free agent signing has been a bust and has four years and more than $40-million remaining on a contract for a player in the midst of his worst statistical performance in six seasons at age 31.

Worse still – and there’s a lot of worse to be had here – that’s only part of the problem.

Treated with velvet gloves by management to start the season and allowed to sit most of training camp and six of eight exhibition games, Turkoglu was seemingly empowered to embrace what appears to be a broad perfectionist streak, which is to say, if he don’t feel perfect, he don’t play, or practice.

This was not a deal-breaking issue (and oh how Bryan Colangelo probably wishes it could be) until the “Turkoflu” hit last Wednesday.

It’s the virus that keeps on giving.

Hedo quit – I mean, stopped playing – at halftime of the Utah Jazz game last Wednesday, didn’t practice Thursday, met with team doctors Friday, who apparently agreed he should be kept out the game against Denver. He also didn’t make it through practice Saturday.

Now, sick is sick, though four days off for an upset stomach seems like a stretch for an elite athlete paid absolutely enormous amounts of money to be in the peak of health and fitness at all times. And as I wrote last week, sick or not, Turkoglu has a credibility problem. By not giving the impression that he’s living or dying with every win or loss, or even suggesting he notices, he’s given license to people to go: “Ya right” whenever he’s sick or hurt or whatever.

Which makes it all too perfect that Friday night Turk is feeling a bit peckish, and heads out to Yorkville for a bite to eat after the Raptors get what heart they have broken by the Denver Nuggets, only to be seen by some fans who wonder why someone too sick to work is out for dinner, and respectfully inquire about the issue, raising the question through some media and team management.

Well.

Enough’s enough, apparently. And Turkoglu gets fined and benched for the Raptors collapse in Miami last night.

And for what it’s worth, when I asked him about it before the game, Turkoglu denied he was out and then started complaining about how he’s been getting targeted for this stuff all year.

Sigh. Where do you start with this? Seriously.

It’s apparent Colangelo and Triano screwed this up from the start. Both are smart, dedicated people, but they chose the wrong guy to give the benefit of the doubt to in the early going, and have been paying for it ever since. The word out of Orlando was that Turkoglu needed to be constantly poked, prodded, pushed and pulled to get him to deliver his best. It’s not clear that’s what’s happened here.

Turkoglu? He should be ashamed of himself. He’s taken the money but at no point has he given the impression he’s determined to prove he’s worth it.

I was talking to him before the game last night and it took about 30 seconds before he began complaining about his role and the system.

And you know what? He’s right. It is different here than in Orlando. Everything goes through Bosh, who holds it, or Bargnani, who holds it, and this is usually after Calderon has pounded it for a few seconds. So when Turkoglu does get it it’s often late in the clock and let’s face it, he’s not LeBron, Wade or Kobe.

But it’s on him to be fit, ready and healthy, and if necessary impose his will, I think. Hasn’t happened.

And Bosh?

He’s been terrible since the All-Star break, and whispers around the team attribute it to everything from his new and New York-based girlfriend having his ear to him going to Dallas for All-Star and coming back having decided to move on and going into “protect my numbers and don’t get hurt mode”. Or maybe he’s preoccupied with getting his tattoo finished.

In any case, for years he was cautious about calling out his teammates and his coaches, preferring to lead by example. Now that the example isn’t so good he’s doing it casually.

Last night, in about 90 seconds, he blamed his teammates for failing to man up and hit shots going down the stretch after he kicked it out and the coaching staff for improperly scheming Wade down the stretch.

Nice.

And Jay Triano? Not his finest hour. He had to have known he was going to be asked about benching Turkoglu, but when I did, this is how it came down. The relevant exchange is at the two minute mark. Here’s the text:

So you gave him a seat tonight?

“He was active, it was a coach’s decision to not play him.”

Why?

“Coach’s decision.”

But you could use him in a close game in the fourth quarter?

”If he’s 100 per cent healthy and able to go, he’s helped us in those situations, yeah.”

So was the coach’s decision to more to send a message to your group, or because of his health?

”Both.”

What was message?

“Not healthy.”

You know what? That’s the wrong answer. Colangelo said the matter was handled internally, which can safely be interpreted as Turkoglu was fined.

But when the second-best player on the team – or the guy paid to be the second-best player – gets benched, it’s not an internal matter. It’s very external. Everyone knows something is wrong, and I think they deserve a better answer than was given.

And the whole Calderon fouling Arroyo to extend the game strategy – a totally legitimate strategy, by the way – you can’t, as a coach, say that you don’t really have an opinion about what happens on the floor with 25 seconds left in a two-point game.

Not when your point guard is 10 feet away from you. Chris Bosh had an opinion. His opinion was to foul and extend the game, which is what he told Calderon to do, and Calderon did it. Ideally it’s your point guard giving instructions, not vice-versa, but whatever.

To be fair Triano might have been trying to protect Calderon by saying that what he did wasn’t wrong. But if you can’t assert your will as a coach when you point guard is 10 feet away in the dying seconds of a crucial game, then when?

I’m not a gambling man, but I’d place this bet, with confidence: The Raptors aren’t going to make the playoffs and in fact, will flame out in their final 10 games quite spectacularly. This team is 4-13 in their past 17, and deservedly so. Jay Triano will soon become the first Canadian ex-head coach in the NBA, and Chris Bosh will soon after be a former Raptor.

The question is will Bryan Colangelo have a chance to try and make sense of the shards that remain, and should he?

Last edited by RaininThrees : 03-29-2010 at 05:07 PM.
RaininThrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 05:16 PM   #2
Himan12
On the clouds
 
Himan12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 609
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Yea, most of us have given up all hope. But damn it sucks that we are breaking down during this time of the season.
Himan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 05:22 PM   #3
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 3,581
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Fantastic article from start to finish, and it makes me sick.

I'm glad he's calling out management and the coaching staff, as well as holding all the important players accountable. We thought last years off-season was huge? I wonder what goes down this summer...
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 05:23 PM   #4
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 8,314
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Yeah the "new york based GF" thing is what intrigued me the most. It sucks if what they say about Bosh is true and if he does indeed ask for a sign and trade at the end of this dismal season (which I suspect he probably will), I will be extremely disappointed in how he chose to play out the string.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 05:25 PM   #5
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 3,581
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Maybe Bosh is thinking, "Hey, I'm leaving as soon as the seasons over. Might as well play shitty and at least give this team the first round pick they deserve!"

Thank you.. Chris Bosh..??
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 05:32 PM   #6
Tool
Ball til I fall
 
Tool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rep Tdot til they bury me
Posts: 1,582
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Thee way this season has unfolded has obviously been a clear disappointment. Not only the team as a whole has taken a blow to the gut, but the entire franchise

Nothing really else to say just a huge meltdown nobody on the t eam besides a few players played or have been playing at an NBA level as of late. Basically the passed few months and the Laker win at home don't mean much anymore. The team is still the worst in the league defensively
Tool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 05:35 PM   #7
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 8,314
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

The thing that pisses me off the most is that if Bosh post all-star was playing like Bosh pre-all-star we wouldn't be in this mess.... I'm tired of people saying he's tired, his knee is messed up because of the brace, and he's slow and bla bla bla.... He wore the same damn bulky knee brace to start the season and his knee was just fine. He was just as fast as he always was, more aggressive, stronger, and playing the best basketball of his career. Then he just decided to turn it down a few notches from a 10 to like a 6 or 7. Still good enough to produce decent numbers, but not enough to win. Yes, the team around you is not that good, but how are we gonna win without our best player giving a max effort?
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 06:50 PM   #8
BRabbiT
....
 
BRabbiT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: .....
Posts: 5,165
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

good article.
BRabbiT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 07:06 PM   #9
Tool
Ball til I fall
 
Tool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rep Tdot til they bury me
Posts: 1,582
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
The thing that pisses me off the most is that if Bosh post all-star was playing like Bosh pre-all-star we wouldn't be in this mess.... I'm tired of people saying he's tired, his knee is messed up because of the brace, and he's slow and bla bla bla.... He wore the same damn bulky knee brace to start the season and his knee was just fine. He was just as fast as he always was, more aggressive, stronger, and playing the best basketball of his career. Then he just decided to turn it down a few notches from a 10 to like a 6 or 7. Still good enough to produce decent numbers, but not enough to win. Yes, the team around you is not that good, but how are we gonna win without our best player giving a max effort?

Dude I completely agree Bosh lost a step after the allstar break. Like he was shut down by Serge Ibaka. Before the allstar break he was putting up 15+ rebounds a game almost every night. After he got injured and came back he never looked the same and hes its noticeable hes less aggressive and hes been settling for jumeprs soo much more lately. Even tonight against the Bobcats.
Tool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 11:22 PM   #10
Burgz
Banned
 
Burgz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: TDOT
Posts: 1,813
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool
Dude I completely agree Bosh lost a step after the allstar break. Like he was shut down by Serge Ibaka. Before the allstar break he was putting up 15+ rebounds a game almost every night. After he got injured and came back he never looked the same and hes its noticeable hes less aggressive and hes been settling for jumeprs soo much more lately. Even tonight against the Bobcats.

i agree with this, but being a teams star player, you get worn down every night you play
and coming back from an injury, knowing bosh's tendency to play hurt, who knows what percentage bosh is at.

the good thing though is he shows flashes of his old self, meaning he can still do the things he was doing earlier in the season, just not every single play
Burgz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 12:16 AM   #11
Tool
Ball til I fall
 
Tool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rep Tdot til they bury me
Posts: 1,582
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Yea he was making plays today which was one of the reasons why we won. Blocked shot, charge making plays on the defensive side of the ball is just as important as getting your offense.
Tool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 01:17 AM   #12
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 8,314
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgz
i agree with this, but being a teams star player, you get worn down every night you play
and coming back from an injury, knowing bosh's tendency to play hurt, who knows what percentage bosh is at.

the good thing though is he shows flashes of his old self, meaning he can still do the things he was doing earlier in the season, just not every single play
I agree that a full NBA season is a grind and players do get tired... but I wouldn't attribute fatigue or injuries as main reasons to his lackluster play of late. We've clearly seen that anytime he wants to, he can impose his will on the game. He showed it in the 3rd quarter of last nights game, he showed it in flashes in some of the other games. It just seems like his mind is half way out the door already. He's fully capable of playing better/harder.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 06:43 AM   #13
BRabbiT
....
 
BRabbiT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: .....
Posts: 5,165
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Calderon & Jack are above average point guards (imo), but unless this team somehow signs or develops a dominant swingman (e.g., s.jack), this team will always play ugly basketball.

BC must know this. why else would he sacrifice so much by insisting Derozan start in his rookie season (when he's clearly not ready to give the other four players on the floor what's necessary from the 2 guard position)?

Sonny Weems is the best available option right now (sadly).
BRabbiT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 08:47 AM   #14
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,166
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRabbiT
Sonny Weems is the best available option right now (sadly).

I wouldn't even say sadly. He's actually a very decent player. Takes good shots and makes them efficiently. Plays good defense. He has come a long way from that one-dimensional slasher/dunker that played for Denver and Milwaukee. I never expected him to have any sort of a mid-range game and he really impressed me with how he developed it.
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 08:50 AM   #15
bada bing
College star
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,065
Default Re: "No hope for the Raptors. None."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
I wouldn't even say sadly. He's actually a very decent player. Takes good shots and makes them efficiently. Plays good defense. He has come a long way from that one-dimensional slasher/dunker that played for Denver and Milwaukee. I never expected him to have any sort of a mid-range game and he really impressed me with how he developed it.

he is talking about a dominant swingman. Yes Weems is good but he is the 3 or 4th guy coming of the bench.
bada bing is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 PM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:

NBA Basketball

NBA Rumors

Basketball Blog

NBA Videos

Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy