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  1. #91
    "3 is greater than 2" CuterThanRubio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    I have confirmed that John Stockton has NEVER led his team in scoring in a playoff series!

    Steve Nash led his team in scoring and assists on multiple occasions, including a 7 game series against a prime Kobe Bryant, reviving an underpowered AMAR'E-LESS squad and coming back from a 3-1 deficit!

    EDIT: Corrected the year: 04/05: 6 games vs. Mavs = 30.3ppg 6.5reb 12apg

    30ppg! Has Stockton even scored 30 in a single game? Nash dropped 48,34,39 to close the series and managed to outscore Dirk! Stockton could never dream of outgunning a guy like Dirk!


    He also led his squad in scoring against the Spurs in a sweep at age 35, how can you hate on that?

    Steve ate that bums lunch head to head on numerous occasions once he became a full fledged starter and found his niche, including a playoff series where he outplayed him, there is no debate!

    Keep in mind that Nash ended his career with MORE total points than Stoudemire, meanwhile Stockton was piggybacking the SECOND best scorer on the all time list, you simply cannot ignore this!

    Last edited by CuterThanRubio; 07-30-2016 at 10:26 PM.

  2. #92
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer warriorfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by CuterThanRubio
    I have confirmed that John Stockton has NEVER led his team in scoring in a playoff series!

    Steve Nash led his team in scoring and assists on multiple occasions, including a 7 game series against a prime Kobe Bryant, reviving an underpowered AMAR'E-LESS squad and coming back from a 3-1 deficit!

    05/06: 6 games vs. Mavs = 30.3ppg 6.5reb 12apg

    30ppg! Has Stockton even scored 30 in a single game? Nash dropped 48,34,39 to close the series and managed to outscore Dirk! Stockton could never dream of outgunning a guy like Dirk!


    He also led his squad in scoring against the Spurs in a sweep at age 35, how can you hate on that?

    Steve ate that bums lunch head to head on numerous occasions once he became a full fledged starter and found his niche, including a playoff series where he outplayed him, there is no debate!

    Keep in mind that Nash ended his career with MORE total points than Stoudemire, meanwhile Stockton was piggybacking the SECOND best scorer on the all time list, you simply cannot ignore this!

    Actually we can

    http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/pro...gnore&u=319704

  3. #93
    Very good NBA starter Round Mound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Stockton did not need to score as much cause he had Malone , one of the best scorers in league But...when the Jazz needed a clutch shooter Stockton was always the man to do so. Lets also remember that Stockton is the all time assist and steals leader. Stockton was also much better defensively than Nash.

  4. #94
    Local High School Star CakeorDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by CuterThanRubio
    I have confirmed that John Stockton has NEVER led his team in scoring in a playoff series!

    ...

    Keep in mind that Nash ended his career with MORE total points than Stoudemire, meanwhile Stockton was piggybacking the SECOND best scorer on the all time list, you simply cannot ignore this!

    So, when you are trying to downplay Stockton's assists, you mention the impact that playing with the second leading scorer of all time had on that statistic.

    When you are arguing that Stockton should have scored more, you don't mention the impact that playing with the second leading scorer of all time had on that statistic.

    Time to get your tinfoil hat adjusted.

  5. #95
    "3 is greater than 2" CuterThanRubio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
    So, when you are trying to downplay Stockton's assists, you mention the impact that playing with the second leading scorer of all time had on that statistic.

    When you are arguing that Stockton should have scored more, you don't mention the impact that playing with the second leading scorer of all time had on that statistic.

    Time to get your tinfoil hat adjusted.


    I never once said he "should have scored more", control your rage induced hallucinations, I'm simply broadcasting my observation that he was INCAPABLE of doing so if necessary, his career high in points was 34.


    There were lesser players on his team who surpassed him in scoring too, not only Malone, he didn't stop them from scoring, Stockton didn't have the ability to control games by putting the ball in the basket, he was solely reliant on Malone putting in work!


    Nash was able to outscore the main offensive weapons on his team during their primes without stalling the gameplan, he effortlessly blended his own opportunities within the flow of the game, there is a reason why he led a handful of the best offenses, his approach to the game was unheralded, and when a superior talent such as Curry or LeBron utilized Nash ball they won titles, no surprise there!


    Guys like Nash and Parker were consistently keeping defenses in check because if you let him run free they will light you up, while teams could afford to let Stockton get his measly 10 points on high percentages because he wasn't EVER looking to take what the defense gave him from an individual standpoint!

    Another thing, Stockton wasn't a defensive stalwart by any means, he played passing lanes well and was a dirty pest, but he was never a game changer on that end of the floor, he got clowned on the regular, and the point guard position is the least important defensively

  6. #96
    Very good NBA starter Round Mound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!


  7. #97
    "3 is greater than 2" CuterThanRubio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Round Mound
    "John Stockton is harder to guard than Michael Jordan"

    I can't even read that aloud without breaking into a fit of puzzled laughter, are you really trying to use that as your trump card? Get serious!

    You are the same guy I saw claiming that Barkley was a SF and could finish better than LeBron and Jordan, lol get out of here man you are too funny!

    None of my claims have been successfully refuted, and I doubt anyone disagreeing with my opinion is that big of a Stockton supporter in the first place, and how could you be, he was not an exciting player!

  8. #98
    Very good NBA starter Round Mound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by CuterThanRubio
    "John Stockton is harder to guard than Michael Jordan"

    I can't even read that aloud without breaking into a fit of puzzled laughter, are you really trying to use that as your trump card? Get serious!

    You are the same guy I saw claiming that Barkley was a SF and could finish better than LeBron and Jordan, lol get out of here man you are too funny!

    None of my claims have been successfully refuted, and I doubt anyone disagreeing with my opinion is that big of a Stockton supporter in the first place, and how could you be, he was not an exciting player!
    Im sure your opinion is more valuable than one of the greatest pgs to ever play in Gary Payton. And i never said that Barkley was a SF (he could play both PF and SF) and YES he was a better finisher than both Jordan and Lebron: 1988-96 stats at 81% at the rim. PHILA has the stats. Period.

  9. #99
    "3 is greater than 2" CuterThanRubio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Round Mound
    Im sure your opinion is more valuable than one of the greatest pgs to ever play in Gary Payton. And i never said that Barkley was a SF (he could play both PF and SF) and YES he was a better finisher than both Jordan and Lebron: 1988-96 stats at 81% at the rim. PHILA has the stats. Period.
    Hyperbole

    hy

  10. #100
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    I thought this thread was about how stat keepers inflated Stockton's assists? You still haven't shown any evidence of that.

  11. #101
    "3 is greater than 2" CuterThanRubio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastic
    I thought this thread was about how stat keepers inflated Stockton's assists? You still haven't shown any evidence of that.
    Yes I have, its up to the reader to take the necessary steps and digest the information, I can't force you to learn

    http://deadspin.com/5345287/the-conf...ba-scorekeeper

    Always on my d!ck, it is not surprising that you just made a thread about Draymond's, suspect activity, this is who I'm debating against? Jeez lol


  12. #102
    Long Live The Process fourkicks44's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    [QUOTE=CuterThanRubio]Hyperbole

    hy

  13. #103
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by CuterThanRubio
    There have been many discussions in the past few days about the necessary criteria and credentials to be named one of the best point guards in league history, and these debates have produced some OUTRAGEOUS claims!

    John Stockton and Mark Price have been name dropped on countless occasions, and their supporters swear that they would transform into the paleskinned Curry and Damian Lillard if they were playing today.

    That reminded me of an old thread that dissected the assist differential between home and road games, and I recall Stockton getting a HEALTHY DOSE of home cooking, so I decided to investigate further and my suspicions have been confirmed!

    First I'm going to list the assist differential for the top ten assist leaders, excluding 0scar 0berts0n because his numbers aren't available, and they are probably too scandalous to report in the first place, 60s basketball is an illusion.

    1. Stockton +.8

    2.Kidd +1.

    3.NASH -.4

    4. Mark Jackson +.7

    5. Magic +.8

    6. 0scar = Garbage

    7. Isiah Thomas +.9

    8. GP +.3

    9. Andre Miller +1.

    10. Rod Strickland +.4

    BONUS: CP3 +.7

    Now I know you may think that a few tenths of a percentage point are meaningless but consider that equates to 559 MORE home assists for Stockton in TWO LESS games.

    That doesn't seem legitimate to me.

    Take a look at Steve Nash's splits, he played 19 more home games and managed 75 less assists there, whats going on with that?
    People in general play better at home, therefore the assist differential is perfectly normal.



    Now let's take a look into the KARL MALONE factor!

    He averaged 25 points per game over the course of his career.

    Stockton averaged a 50% assist ratio

    So MALONE was responsible for AT LEAST 6 of his assists per game, and that is only on average, Malone was scoring in the late 20s and peaked at 31, can you imagine how many assists were gifted to Stockton during those years?

    Malone has TWO most valuable player awards, if Stockton was responsible for the success of Utah's system wouldn't he be the guy winning awards?

    Malone made Stockton, and dishonest stat-keepers INFLATED his numbers!

    Take another look at Nash's differential, NEGATIVE at home, yet he is 3rd all time, there is NO DOUBT in my mind who the greatest passer and pre-Curry era pure point guard is, stats don't lie!
    You could also say Stockton was responsible for AT LEAST 6 of Malone's made FG. It goes both ways. Stockton and Malone were both all time great players.



    ------------------

    Nash though, was on Magic Johnson's level offensively after the rule change. He just wrecked opponent's defensive scheme so easily by himself. It doesn't show that much at the stat sheet, but he was a monster. He truly deserved his 2 MVPs over Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, whoever else.

  14. #104
    "3 is greater than 2" CuterThanRubio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    [QUOTE=fourkicks44]

    Holy shit, Son! You got me rolling here! This coming from you is hilarious. I guess you are the expert on the topic, so you would know hyperbole when you see it.

    To be honest your posts do entertain me a lot. Your style is a bit extreme but your borderline trolling and antagonism reminds me a lil of my own. I feel honored that you youngins look up to me like that. You are learning kid, hang in there.

    But the fact of the matter is that when you do make such controversial statements you need to back your arguments up with some credible, legit evidence.

    I think the cases you have made for the point guards that you rate as the top 5 are actually pretty good and you raise some important points that get the mind going and should be pondered on. You do make some good arguments for Nash

  15. #105
    Long Live The Process fourkicks44's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dishonest stat-keepers MANUFACTURED John Stockton's legacy!

    Quote Originally Posted by CuterThanRubio


    Keep dreaming, you are nowhere near my level of posting expertise, you don't captivate, you are boring and have an outdated 90's-centric perspective, that ship has sailed! I do appreciate that you were willing to remain level headed and discuss the topic, but jumping out of character with those inane statements is taking it too far!

    Why should I sort through hours of old footage, people still won't believe me, I posted numerous gifs in a recent thread and it failed miserably, planting the seed of truth was my true intention, like I said its up to the reader to dig deeper, stat keepers have admitted to altering numbers in the 90s, there was not constant surveillance and scrutiny like there is today, a few extras here and there would never be noticed, and most of their games were only viewed in a small area of the country, this isn't the DaVinci code, use your head!

    My statement is not controversial when you really start comparing even if you think all of his stats are legit (LMAO), it has become a forbidden taboo to question his ranking and I decided to shed some light on the subject

    Of course you aren't a fan, I predicted that from the outset, I see through these smoke screens, I'm too sharp for the nonsense!

    Bob Cousy?! Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan lol, give it a REST!

    The kids look up to Curry, they don't want to hear about those ancient relics who have no skills transferable to the modern era

    "You are overrating his impact"

    Oh yeah?



    Take a seat!

    Stockton has ZERO influence on today's league!

    I'm interested to know what your top 5 list looks like, its probably more outlandish than mine.

    I was originally planning on laying low until the season started but this thread started blowing up and its too tempting to continue fueling the fire
    Ok let us see how outlandish it is.

    Like you, I am not a massive fan of ranking players in greatest lists but here is how I am feeling right now. I will not include currently active players; however Curry and Paul (and Westbrook when he wins a few championships with the Sixers) will be able to start making cases for their own standing amongst the best of all-time. I too, will also omit Allen Iverson.

    1) Magic Johnson: I think just about every basketball fan can agree on this.

    2) Oscar Robertson: Although you consider him

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