How much you have to earn to be considered middle class in every US state

[UK2K]

http://www.businessinsider.com/middl...s-state-2015-4



Figured the upper bound of the middle class for a household would be much higher.

[RidonKs]

Figured the upper bound of the middle class for a household would be much higher.

yeah no kidding

thats a good graph. to be fair ppl on this site have told you in multiple threads over the past several weeks that average income in america has not kept up with productivity or inflation for decades now... you can even expand the sample from whatever was used for that chart to the 1st deviation normal distribution (or is that just what 'median' means?) and still find a) stagnation or b) outright regression

this shouldn't be a surprise overall.

though i will say that incomes in the deep south are startlingly low... $25-75k with a median of $37k? jeez man thats like $18.50 an hour. how can somebody start a family on that?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Not really surprised. I know a few really rich kids from college who lived in the Maryland/DC area. It's known to have some really high end neighborhoods. New Jersey was kind of a surprise because at least to me, NJ is sporadic in terms of neighborhoods. Some are really wealthy, some are middle class, and some are lower class. The wealthy in NJ though tend to be really wealthy.

Northern NJ has some huge mansions in certain areas.

I guess it takes New York as a whole because I know upstate NY is a lot easier to live off of 60-70k than NYC and the Long Island/Westchester areas.

[ALBballer]

IMO middle class means being able to do the following:

-Support a family of four
-Able to afford to eat out out once or twice (sit down doesn't include fast food)
-Afford to buy a home (30 year mortgage assume)
-Afford to own two cars and buy new cars every 5-10
-Afford a 2-3 week vacation every year
-Buy occasional shit you don't really need (ie upgrade your phone every year or two, buy electronics, clothes, etc)
-Able to put away 10-20% of your salary towards retirement

If that is the case then the numbers seem about right other than a few cities like SF, NYC, DC, LA, etc.

[UK2K]

yeah no kidding

thats a good graph. to be fair ppl on this site have told you in multiple threads over the past several weeks that average income in america has not kept up with productivity or inflation for decades now... you can even expand the sample from whatever was used for that chart to the 1st deviation normal distribution (or is that just what 'median' means?) and still find a) stagnation or b) outright regression

this shouldn't be a surprise overall.

though i will say that incomes in the deep south are startlingly low... $25-75k with a median of $37k? jeez man thats like $18.50 an hour. how can somebody start a family on that?

No, I mean, I wouldnt think over 100k makes you upper class? That's after middle, right? So 100k as a combined household income? That's not all that much, and not that hard to attain between two people.

[RidonKs]

IMO middle class means being able to do the following:

-Support a family of four
-Able to afford to eat out out once or twice (sit down doesn't include fast food)
-Afford to buy a home (30 year mortgage assume)
-Afford to own two cars and buy new cars every 5-10
-Afford a 2-3 week vacation every year
-Buy occasional shit you don't really need (ie upgrade your phone every year or two, buy electronics, clothes, etc)
-Able to put away 10-20% of your salary towards retirement

If that is the case then the numbers seem about right other than a few cities like SF, NYC, DC, LA, etc.

is all of that really possible w/ less than 50k? that would be surprising. american cost of living is very cheap tho

[NumberSix]

though i will say that incomes in the deep south are startlingly low... $25-75k with a median of $37k? jeez man thats like $18.50 an hour. how can somebody start a family on that?

You know what else is really difficult situation to support a family? If you're an aspiring entrepreneur starting a small business. A lot of new businesses fail. You know what happens when your business fails?

Say you've worked really hard for like 20 years. You've saved up maybe $400,000 and maybe were able to get a loan for another $300,000. $700,000 is a nice bit of money to start up a business. But what happens if your business just doesn't work? You've lost your life savings and are in debt. Starting a business is a big risk.

Now, your employees who bitch about their salaries, even though they chose to work there... what happens to them? Well, they lose their jobs and have to look for another one. Not fun, but they don't have their life savings and a large bank loan on the line. They aren't taking the kind of risks the business owner is. They certainly aren't entitled to the same kind of rewards.

If you're a good boss, if your business does really well, you might want to give your employees an increase, but if you've managed to earn massive profits, you've earned that for the kind of work and personal financial risks.

This society depends on people willing to take risks in order to prosper. The rewards need to be worth the risk, or people just won't bother taking the risk. That's what we are starting to see. Governments obsession with limiting the rewards to the point that only people who are already massively wealthy are willing to take risks. If you already have $100 million, what the hell do you care about a $5 million risk?

[RidonKs]

meh

bankruptcy law mitigates most of that

only thing he has to worry about is the transition from aspiring entrepreneur to failed entrepreneur

i have already addressed your other points in other threads. there is nothing about the modern industrial organization that remotely suggests the founder and owner should be rewarded more highly than others 'along for the ride'.

more often than not in today's world of conglomerates operating in hundreds of markets at once and intense monopolization and vertical integration, the most important pieces in a successful company are bygone products of employees who have worked there and then moved on.




edit:

You know what else is really difficult situation to support a family? If you're an aspiring entrepreneur starting a small business. A lot of new businesses fail. You know what happens when your business fails?

Say you've worked really hard for like 20 years. You've saved up maybe $400,000 and maybe were able to get a loan for another $300,000. $700,000 is a nice bit of money to start up a business. But what happens if your business just doesn't work? You've lost your life savings and are in debt. Starting a business is a big risk.

Now, your employees who bitch about their salaries, even though they chose to work there... what happens to them? Well, they lose their jobs and have to look for another one. Not fun, but they don't have their life savings and a large bank loan on the line. They aren't taking the kind of risks the business owner is. They certainly aren't entitled to the same kind of rewards.

If you're a good boss, if your business does really well, you might want to give your employees an increase, but if you've managed to earn massive profits, you've earned that for the kind of work and personal financial risks.

This society depends on people willing to take risks in order to prosper. The rewards need to be worth the risk, or people just won't bother taking the risk. That's what we are starting to see. Governments obsession with limiting the rewards to the point that only people who are already massively wealthy are willing to take risks. If you already have $100 million, what the hell do you care about a $5 million risk?

i'm slowly realizing how incredibly difficult it is to respond to your same point you make about everything no matter what subject, even with my variety of paraphrases and analogies and angles... i swear i am running out of new ways to rebut ur shit

[NumberSix]

meh

bankruptcy law mitigates most of that

only thing he has to worry about is the transition from aspiring entrepreneur to failed entrepreneur

i have already addressed your other points in other threads. there is nothing about the modern industrial organization that remotely suggests the founder and owner should be rewarded more highly than others 'along for the ride'.

more often than not in today's world of conglomerates operating in hundreds of markets at once and intense monopolization and vertical integration, the most important pieces in a successful company are bygone products of employees who have worked there and then moved on.

No, you don't get your $400,000 back. That's gone forever. But I guess that's just an insignificant detail when it's somebody else's money.

[RidonKs]

No, you don't get your $400,000 back. That's gone forever. But I guess that's just an insignificant detail when it's somebody else's money.

why should you get it back? you made a bad investment.

if i buy a boat and don't do good upkeep and it sinks, am i entitled to another boat to replace my sh!tty boat i didn't take proper care of?

what it does mitigate is entrepreneurial debt, which was something you emphasized.

[KingBeasley08]

Maryland

Shout out to Northern Virginia as well. We doin' work out there

[NumberSix]

why should you get it back? you made a bad investment.

You shouldn't. It's a big risk. As I just explained, the average person isn't going to take that kind of risk unless the potential reward is worth it.

What you want is all risk, little reward. You think people should just be super nice guys and spread the reward out evenly because.....

Your idea of economics is, if your business fails, fcuk you. If your business succeeds, give half to the government, take a small cut for yourself and give away the rest to the people you've already paid because, don't be greedy bruh.

You're living in a hippie fantasy world.

[RidonKs]

i object even to the very notion that it's YOUR business

if i work there and contribute to its success in meaningful ways, i have just as much right to call it MY business. though not according to the law. but who wrote the law?

[NumberSix]

i object even to the very notion that it's YOUR business

if i work there and contribute to its success in meaningful ways, i have just as much right to call it MY business. though not according to the law. but who wrote the law?

Lol. A communist reveals his true colors.

[RidonKs]

Lol. A communist reveals his true colors.

colour is irrelevant we are all shades from The Same Great Peach