Are Kobe/LeBron Top 10 all time?

[OldSkoolball#52]

2x vs 5x NBA Champions
2x vs 2x NBA Finals MVP
1x vs 1x MVP
2x vs 0x DPOY
6x vs 10x All-NBA First Team
5x vs 9x All-Defensive First Team
12x vs 15x NBA All-Star
26,946 vs 31,617 Points
22,798 vs 14,909 R/A/S/B combined

What's your argument?

Hakeem was a better player.

[Mass Debator]

Hakeem was a better player.

Based on?

[Kiddlovesnets]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaq
8. Jerry West
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Julius Irving
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Isiah Thomas
15. Moses Malone
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Elgin Baylor
19. Bob Cousy
20. Karl Malone

I can see Lebron moving closer to top 10 if he wins this season, and if he gets a three-peat he'd be reaching bottom-line top 5. For Kobe, theres not much he can do at 35 nowadays.

[pauk]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaq
8. Jerry West
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Julius Irving
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Isiah Thomas
15. Moses Malone
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Elgin Baylor
19. Bob Cousy
20. Karl Malone

I can see Lebron moving closer to top 10 if he wins this season, and if he gets a three-peat he'd be reaching bottom-line top 5. For Kobe, theres not much he can do at 35 nowadays.

Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Isiah Thomas and Julius Erving have ZERO business over Lebron/Kobe...... especially god damn Jerry West & Isiah Thomas.... you even put Jerry West over Duncan.... smh

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol this guy....

Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Isiah Thomas and Julius Erving have ZERO business over Lebron/Kobe...... especially god damn Jerry West & Isiah Thomas.... you even put Jerry West over Duncan.... holy hell man...

Jerry West is the 2nd best SG in NBA history, Kobes a poor man's Jerry West.

[Odinn]

5x vs 9x All-Defensive First Team

What's your argument?

Kobe was a better defensive player than Hakeem Olajuwon based on All-D selections. Right?


You idiot.

[Alan Ogg]

I'm okay with putting Kobe anywhere from the 4 to 10 range. Everyone has different weights according to what they value... rings, stats, longevity, all star appearances, all nba, MVPs, Final MVPs, etc... (All Star MVPs according to some posters on this site lol, pauk?)

I currently have Lebron at 11, but a ring or Finals MVP puts him solidly in the top 10 for me. That'd put him:

2 Finals MVPs
4 MVPs
21,000+ points
top 10 all time in play off points

[Mass Debator]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaq
8. Jerry West
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Julius Irving
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Isiah Thomas
15. Moses Malone
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Elgin Baylor
19. Bob Cousy
20. Karl Malone

I can see Lebron moving closer to top 10 if he wins this season, and if he gets a three-peat he'd be reaching bottom-line top 5. For Kobe, theres not much he can do at 35 nowadays.

Why is that Lebron James is lower than Isiah Thomas, but Oscar Robertson is above Kobe? How are you even rating players?

Barkley also has no case over Karl Malone unless you count for a more dynamic personality.

[Mass Debator]

Kobe was a better defensive player than Hakeem Olajuwon based on All-D selections. Right?


You idiot.

Lol I never said he was a better defensive player. These are awards and accolades. We can't be comparing guards to centers. We all know that.

[chosen_wun]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaq
8. Jerry West
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Julius Irving
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Isiah Thomas
15. Moses Malone
16. Lebron James
17. Charles Barkley
18. Elgin Baylor
19. Bob Cousy
20. Karl Malone

I can see Lebron moving closer to top 10 if he wins this season, and if he gets a three-peat he'd be reaching bottom-line top 5. For Kobe, theres not much he can do at 35 nowadays.

Jerry west over Hakeem and Kobe and Oscar ?

What are you doing ?

Isiah Thomas is a top 15 player all-time ?

[pauk]

Jerry West is the 2nd best SG in NBA history, Kobes a poor man's Jerry West.

Im sorry dude but you have to consider the achievements/accolades...

Let me show you what i mean, here is West vs Lebron for example:


............................Lebron................ ....West............
MVP.........................4..................... ......0...............
FMVP........................1..................... ......1..............
CHAMP......................1...................... .....1..............
1st All-NBA................7...........................10. ............
1st All-Defensive.........5...........................4... ...........
All-Star.....................9........................ ...14.............
ROTY.......................Yes.................... .....No............

Then you take into consideration that Lebron actually won his championship as the best player, Jerry West won his only championship with Gail Goodrich & Wilt Chamberlain outperforming him..... he won the FMVP actually when he did NOT get a championship years earlier (miraculously, 1st & only time in NBA history that happened)...... Lebron had a better peak, was more productive, more dominant and was unlike West the best player in the game for many years....

Duncan has achieved even more than Lebron... so to place West not only over Lebron & Kobe but over freakin Duncan is a disgrace, considering Wests accolades you might aswell have placed Dirk Nowitzki at #8... hell, Nowitzki has also one FMVP/Championship like West AND has MVP unlike West, so it might have been even more reasonable....

[OldSkoolball#52]

Based on?

Based on having watched both guys and knowing who clearly makes a more useful impact on the game consistently.

I will do you a favor, I will grant that on the day Kobe scored his vaunted 81 points in a regular season game against the Raptors, he was better than Hakeem that day. On that one day in the regular season against the Raptors where Kobe had 81 points on 46 field goal attempts against the likes of Jose Calderon and a 34 year old Jalen Rose, he was better than Hakeem.

But I include the many games where Kobe throws the game away for his team to try and "put on a show" and then has to stay after and shoot in front of the media to divert attention away from his shitty game and try to turn the talk to how he's such a warrior and obsessed with improvement. So overall it's not even close.

Based on game alone, Hakeem is easily >>> Kobe. If you take personality into account and not being a corny, contrived, self-obsessed posing showoff, Hakeem >>>>>>>> Kobe. Then if you take things like rape etc. into account, I will run out of > with which to separate them.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Im sorry dude but you have to consider the achievements/accolades...

Let me show you what i mean, here is West vs Lebron for example:


............................Lebron................ ....West............
MVP.........................4..................... ......0...............
FMVP........................1..................... ......1..............
CHAMP......................1...................... .....1..............
1st All-NBA................7...........................10. ............
1st All-Defensive.........5...........................4... ...........
All-Star.....................9........................ ...14.............
ROTY.......................Yes.................... .....No............

Then you take into consideration that Lebron actually won his championship as the best player, Jerry West won his only championship with Gail Goodrich & Wilt Chamberlain outperforming him..... he won the FMVP actually when he did NOT get a championship years earlier (miraculously, 1st & only time in NBA history that happened)...... Lebron had a better peak, was more productive, more dominant and was unlike West the best player in the game for many years....

Duncan has achieved even more than Lebron... so to place West not only over Lebron & Kobe but over freakin Duncan is a disgrace, considering Wests accolades you might aswell have placed Dirk Nowitzki at #8... hell, Nowitzki has also one FMVP/Championship like West AND has MVP unlike West, so it might have been even more reasonable....

Well I believe Lebron will be in top 10 list soon, but at least until he gets his 2nd title hes not there yet. Lets calm down and be patient dude, your idol gets what is necessary to be among the goat list, he just needs more time.

[2010splash]

Uh, Kobe is nowhere near LeBron, a 4-time MVP winner and likely back to back Finals MVP. Kobe only has 1 MVP and has far worse stats and less all-around impact (defense, rebounding, passing) and is also much less efficient. After this year the list will look like this:

Tier 1 - Jordan
Tier 2 - LeBron, Wilt, Magic
Tier 3 - Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Duncan
Tier 4 - Olajuwon, Kobe, Bird

[Mass Debator]

Based on having watched both guys and knowing who clearly makes a more useful impact on the game consistently.

I will do you a favor, I will grant that on the day Kobe scored his vaunted 81 points in a regular season game against the Raptors, he was better than Hakeem that day. On that one day in the regular season against the Raptors where Kobe had 81 points on 46 field goal attempts against the likes of Jose Calderon and a 34 year old Jalen Rose, he was better than Hakeem.

But I include the many games where Kobe throws the game away for his team to try and "put on a show" and then has to stay after and shoot in front of the media to divert attention away from his shitty game and try to turn the talk to how he's such a warrior and obsessed with improvement. So overall it's not even close.

Based on game alone, Hakeem is easily >>> Kobe. If you take personality into account and not being a corny, contrived, self-obsessed posing showoff, Hakeem >>>>>>>> Kobe. Then if you take things like rape etc. into account, I will run out of > with which to separate them.

You are simply rating players out of dislike and the "eye test" which is all opinionated or at least not a fact. If the eye test was used, Lebron is better than everyone not-named Michael Jordan.

Very cute analysis between Kobe and Hakeem and very troll-like symptoms. Kobe's "put on a show" has gotten him much success on the court and off. MJ also had his moments of arrogance but all will be forgotten or at least uncared for as greatness will shadow all of that. It'll be the same for Kobe.