Democrats, do you believe Mexicans should be treated like humans?

[OldSkoolball#52]

Now, hear me out. I only ask this because typically it is Democrats who attempt to block comprehensive immigration reform. They want open borders, and as many immigrants to come here undocumented and do as they wish as possible. To his credit, the President has agreed to put reform on the table, and to the dismay and predictable discredit of many of the losers in his party, they're unhappy about it.

So when you talk to Democrats about illegal immigration, they will say the following: (Well, first of all, they will call you racist because Mexico is a race. But then they will say the following):

"Mexicans come here and do the jobs Americans don't want to do. It also provides important cheap labor for the economy. Without Mexican workers, agriculture would be more expensive, as well as the products and services in various other industries. Americans benefit from illegal immigrants!!!!!!"

Ok. So let's take that at face value. Fair enough. Now let's talk about lowering the minimum wage in America, in order to increase jobs, boost supply, and ultimately lower prices and increase investment.

"NAHHH UHHHH!!!!! You have to raise minimum wage!!!! Its not fair that somebody whos 35 and works at burger king can't support his family for 8 dollars an hour!!!! no fair!!!! down with wall street, jerk!!!! you can't lower minimum wage its not fair!!!!! How do you expect a guy who only gets 8 dollars an hour to afford his cigarettes and satelite TV and still be able to have health insurance. Minimum wage isnt even at a humane amount now, you cant lower itttttt!!!!! arghrhghrhghhhggggggrrrrrrr!!!!"


I see. So, basically, 8 dollars an hour is a barely humane wage that everyone should be entitled to, at minimum, in order to provide basic support for their families. Except for Mexicans, right? Mexicans deserve less. Because Democrats argue that we need immigrants here to work long hours with no benefits for less than minimum wage. But if, in a different conversation, you bring up the American minimum wage (and dont bring up immigrant labor, lest they realize they're being hypocrites) and how reducing minimum wage could stimulate business, they cry about how asinine that idea is and how people deserve a decent wage and its just filthy corporate greed that keeps minimum wage low.

So, when you think about it, Democrats basically see Mexicans as slaves. They want them here working the jobs nobody else wants, and for well below minimum wage. Yet they cry out for minimum wage being something every American deserves at the very least. Usually they're trying to get minimum wage raised, because they think they're taking care of a bunch of people out there who are just struggling to get by. But their argument for illegal labor is how willing those people are to work for a wage well below the poverty line.

So Democrats essentially view Americans as deserving a basic, civil pay rate simply for existing, simply for being a person with a job. It's a fundamental truth to them that they deserve an arbitrary "minimum" pay rate simply for agreeing to work. But Mexicans? Thank god we have them here to do all this work for these rates that are beneath the dignity and survivability of what Americans deserve.


I've just always found these two positions deliciously hypocritical. Can any of the Democrats here explain to me why they see Mexicans as less than human? I personally don't. But I'm not a staunch supporter of raising the minimum wage every few... minutes.

[Kblaze8855]

Mexicans around my way drive Navigators and new F-150s because there are several adults who work and pool their money till they can branch out. They are doing better than black people from what I see. And I respect it.

Third of this country was theirs before we moved the line and just looking at the numbers...they will be roughly equal to whites in my lifetime.

This will be their country in 50 years. And im fine with it.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Mexicans around my way drive Navigators and new F-150s because there are several adults who work and pool their money till they can branch out. They are doing better than black people from what I see. And I respect it.

Third of this country was theirs before we moved the line and just looking at the numbers...they will be roughly equal to whites in my lifetime.

This will be their country in 50 years. And im fine with it.

Excellent story, brother. I also do not have a problem with Mexican people, and respect many things about their culture.

However, what are your thoughts on minimum wage? Do you think its a good thing? Do you think it should be higher?

What is your position on illegal laborers working for less than minimum wage? Do you think it is acceptable?

Many Democrats feel the current minimum wage is a joke, an insult, unsuitable etc. and want it to be raised (at the overall expense of the economy). But if you voice any advocacy for immigration reform, they tell you how important Mexicans are to the economy because of how cheap they are willing to work. So essentially Democrats see Mexicans as being below Americans on a fundamental human level, and think they are an asset simply as slaves.

What do you think about that, K blaz

[macmac]

Mexicans around my way drive Navigators and new F-150s because there are several adults who work and pool their money till they can branch out. They are doing better than black people from what I see. And I respect it.

Third of this country was theirs before we moved the line and just looking at the numbers...they will be roughly equal to whites in my lifetime.

This will be their country in 50 years. And im fine with it.

You're fooling yourself if you think it will be their country. They might multiply and inhabit a large portion of the country but the power will always remain in the white gated communities of CEOs, lobbyists, politicians, stock brockers and high end professionals

[OldSkoolball#52]

You're fooling yourself if you think it will be their country. They might multiply and inhabit a large portion of the country but the power will always remain in the white gated communities of CEOs, lobbyists, politicians, stock brockers and high end professionals

Not only this, but if they aren't qualified to work the jobs that will be relevant in the future, "their country" is going to suck donkey ballzack. Exacerbated by the fact that their reproduction rates will soon have America looking like China. How exciting.

We are actually fortunate right now that because the Mexican economy has picked up a little bit of steam while the American economy is slightly stagnated, immigration across the southern border is lower at this point in time than it has been in a long time. However, the issue still needs to be addressed to prevent future mass immigration. The industrial boom is over for America. The digital/tech age is here and those are the positions that need to be filled. People who come here and aren't equipped to provide those services will inevitably consume more of Americans resources than the produce. On a large (and growing) scale, that is very bad for an economy. its just that simple.

I wish people could take the emotion out of it. You're (meaning ppl in genearl) so afraid that you're gonna hurt someones feeling or sound "insensitive" that you take completely irrational and impractical positions about these thigns. It has nothing to do with hate or bigotry and nationalism or patriotism. It's pretty much simple economics. At any given time, there is an 'ideal' population figure for where a country/economy is. It's hard enough to control something like that as it is, without having the unpredictability of mass immigration. Nobody is saying don't allow foreigners to move here. They're simply saying the process has to be monitored, regulated, and enforced. It's amazing how Democrats want vigorous regulation of business, but not of unauthorized immigration??

[HarryCallahan]

OP; minimum wage should be abolished. Whatever happened to cinema ushers, gas pump attendants and grocery baggers? Minimum wage laws made those jobs disappear.

[Jailblazers7]

This thread is why political discussion in America blows. The OP builds a weak, simplistic strawman that is assigned to a party based on media generalizations and then knocks it down.

There is actually a lot of good discussion to be done on immigration but this thread isnt it.

[OldSkoolball#52]

The OP builds a weak, simplistic strawman that is assigned to a party based on media generalizations and then knocks it down.

Back this up.

Find a specific example of something I said that you think was incorrect, deceptive, misrepresentative, and explain what makes you think that.

I'll wait.

So far everyone else in the thread at least gave an opinion related or semi-related to the topic. If you're gonna complain about political discussion, at least put your money where your mouth is and back up the opinion you just gave.

[Kblaze8855]

What do I think?

I think you did what many people do...you decided what your opposition thinks and narrowed it down as much as possible for the express purpose of making it sound unreasonable.

The idea that democrats all think illegals should stay so they can work sub minimum wage jobs is so out of line with reality its not worth discussing.

It makes me assume you dont want to actually have a conversation about it.

Im sure that if you wanted you could find a quote or two from people having 2 hour discussions on it that mention them working low paying jobs in a 9 second clip...but to narrow it down to something like that just makes me assume you arent trying to be reasonable.

[IamRAMBO24]

Back this up.

Find a specific example of something I said that you think was incorrect, deceptive, misrepresentative, and explain what makes you think that.

I'll wait.

So far everyone else in the thread at least gave an opinion related or semi-related to the topic. If you're gonna complain about political discussion, at least put your money where your mouth is and back up the opinion you just gave.

Your premise is wrong:

1. Mexicans are being treated like "slaves" because of minimum wage.

First, your compassion towards Mexicans is laughable. You are a covert racist: the fact you went on a tirade over latino music being played at Macy's and outright using that as a premise to build up an argument towards the "downfall of America" is laughable.

Second, your definition of "slaves" is incorrect: you define Mexicans as slaves because they are willing to work long hours at minimum wage. Do you know what is slave work? The jobs in mexico, working at factories in China, and the worst kind of "slavery": having no job nor any opportunity.

Therefore, since your definition is wrong and your intent is wrong, this makes your premise a strawmen.

Be honest with your argument and maybe people will take you seriously; as is, you're just another bullsh*t pawn for foxnews. They're pros at logical deception; it's evident you are taking cues from them because the same crap you are talking about is the same sh*t Sean Hannity spews day in and day out.

[Patrick Chewing]

There is actually a lot of good discussion to be done on immigration but this thread isnt it.

So where is your thread on it??

[OldSkoolball#52]

What do I think?

I think you did what many people do...you decided what your opposition thinks and narrowed it down as much as possible for the express purpose of making it sound unreasonable.

The idea that democrats all think illegals should stay so they can work sub minimum wage jobs is so out of line with reality its not worth discussing.

It makes me assume you dont want to actually have a conversation about it.

Im sure that if you wanted you could find a quote or two from people having 2 hour discussions on it that mention them working low paying jobs in a 9 second clip...but to narrow it down to something like that just makes me assume you arent trying to be reasonable.

Ok so let's take out my humorous and didactic characterizations and delicious poetic licensing.

What is your opinion on illegal immigrants working for wages below what has been determined to be the minimum legal wage suitable for American workers? The minimum wage that was put in place to as a protective measure for workers, so that they can provide a basic life for themselves and their families.

What are your thoughts on the fact that Democats typically turn a blind eye to this concept in order to defend the presence of illegal immigrants?

You know what the crux of my point is, and how it clearly illustrates a hypocrisy. Saying you won't answer me because you don't like my tone and my rhetoric just looks like a cop out. People like you and jailblazer, based on what I can tell from your responses here, probably would support higher minimum wage, as well as illegal immigrant labor in separate discussions. And then when someone puts them side by side and illustrates the contradiction and asks what you think, you say "i dont wanna talk about it anymore"

maybe I'm wrong. I don't know what your actual feelings are on it. im just tellin you what your response so far seems to indicate.

[nathanjizzle]

didnt read.

[bmulls]

Your premise is wrong:

1. Mexicans are being treated like "slaves" because of minimum wage.

First, your compassion towards Mexicans is laughable. You are a covert racist: the fact you went on a tirade over latino music being played at Macy's and outright using that as a premise to build up an argument towards the "downfall of America" is laughable.

Second, your definition of "slaves" is incorrect: you define Mexicans as slaves because they are willing to work long hours at minimum wage. Do you know what is slave work? The jobs in mexico, working at factories in China, and the worst kind of "slavery": having no job nor any opportunity.

Therefore, since your definition is wrong and your intent is wrong, this makes your premise a strawmen.

Be honest with your argument and maybe people will take you seriously; as is, you're just another bullsh*t pawn for foxnews. They're pros at logical deception; it's evident you are taking cues from them because the same crap you are talking about is the same sh*t Sean Hannity spews day in and day out.

The irony, it hurts.

He's criticizing the Democrat party's stance on immigration, not the Mexicans themselves. Your calling him a racist is an ad hominem attack, and the rest of your post is arguing semantics.

Let someone else handle this one, champ.

[IamRAMBO24]

Ok so let's take out my humorous and didactic characterizations and delicious poetic licensing.

What is your opinion on illegal immigrants working for wages below what has been determined to be the minimum legal wage suitable for American workers? The minimum wage that was put in place to as a protective measure for workers, so that they can provide a basic life for themselves and their families.

What are your thoughts on the fact that Democats typically turn a blind eye to this concept in order to defend the presence of illegal immigrants?

You know what the crux of my point is, and how it clearly illustrates a hypocrisy. Saying you won't answer me because you don't like my tone and my rhetoric just looks like a cop out. People like you and jailblazer, based on what I can tell from your responses here, probably would support higher minimum wage, as well as illegal immigrant labor in separate discussions. And then when someone puts them side by side and illustrates the contradiction and asks what you think, you say "i dont wanna talk about it anymore"

maybe I'm wrong. I don't know what your actual feelings are on it. im just tellin you what your response so far seems to indicate.

Again, another strawmen: Democrats support below minimum wage for illegal immigrant labor.

Where the f*ck did you get this? Show me one Democratic politician that has gone on record and said they support paying someone below minimum wage, let alone someone who said they support workers who obtain their jobs through illegal means.

You're full of sh*t. Can you be honest for once?