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  1. #1
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    How you calculate it:

    The lower the defensive stat is, the better your defense is.

    The Defensive rating stat is simply:

    For players and teams it is points allowed per 100 possessions.
    - http://www.basketball-reference.com/...y.html#def_rtg

    This means you divide points allowed and 100 by the number of possessions.

    There are a lot of ways to calculate the number of possessions, but it is usually calculated by this formula for the defensive equation:

    .96 * (FGA − ORb + TO + (.44 * FTA))
    - http://sonicscentral.com/statsite.html (this site shows the many ways you could calculate for different situations)

    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APBRmet...mon_statistics

    Also when you do your own calculation, don't be mad if your calculation is slightly off.

    The .96 multiplier adjusts for team rebounds. Because these are not considered offensive rebounds, the formula slightly overestimates the number of possessions per team without the multiplier.
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APBRmet...mon_statistics

    To sum it up, you have to do this formula:

    Points allowed * 100/.96 * (FGA − ORb + TO + (.44 * FTA))



    How to use it:

    The defensive rating is suppose to measure the quality of defense. But it is invalid to compare it other seasons because defensive rating is proportional to the possessions and pacing. When the number of possessions goes up, the defensive rating also goes up. This is also true for the offensive rating:

    Milwaukee led the league in field goal percentage and assists and did well in offensive rebounds. The Bucks' 99.3 rating, though it led the league would now be among the worst in the NBA. New Jersey had an offensive rating of 99.9, which was second to last in '87-88. Because the pace of the game is so much slower now, the Nets adjusted points per game rating was 101.7, much lower than the Bucks' 109.2.
    - http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/helpscrn/rtgs.html

    This is list of the average number of possessions each year:



    - http://arturogalletti.wordpress.com/...ting-for-pace/

    As the number of possessions goes down, you would see defensive rating goes up. Notice how 2004 has the lowest possession rating out of 32 years span (exclude 1999). It also has the lowest pacing. It's no coincidence that year also had the lowest defensive rating.

    This also could mean that 2003-04 wasn't the best defensive year. It just means that the league was incredibly slow. If you would have put those teams in another era, they would probably been force to run more. This is true with other great teams, vice versa.

    The defensive rating is inflated with the number of possessions you have. It is only valid when comparing with a similar pacing/possession rating season. It may be only right to use defensive rating for one season at a time instead of comparing.

  2. #2
    Local High School Star
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    defense still dictates PACE....it's not a coincidence that the PACE picked up once hand-checking was curtailed yet again. Hand-checking + zone defense made defense as tough as it has ever been. Spurs and piston made a religion out of holding teams to 80 pts and lower.

    I get what you're saying, but the defensive rules are what dictates the PACE of play.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    it's like this If you're playing a team that runs a press the entire time and uses no zone techniques and no hand checking. Naturally you run and gun them out of the Jim.

    On the other hand if you're team that hand checks and uses zone techniques in conjuction with that you're gonna slow the other teams game down. because of more defensive resistance. great defensive teams slow teams down and force them to use more of the clock. Not very many teams could've came to the Palace of auburn hills talking about "we're going to run and gun"
    Last edited by Christofire; 03-30-2011 at 08:31 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    isn't DRtg just the opposing teams ORtg?

  5. #5
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Hint:

    The number of possessions used is different for every team and every year of the formula.

    Example 1. My team gives up 100 pts to the fast paced Warriors (100 possessions)

    100/100 multiplied by 100 = 100.0 DEF RATING

    Example 2 My team gives up 100 pts to the slower paced Pistons (75 possessions)

    100/75 multiplied by 100= 133.3 DEF RATING

  6. #6
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Christofire
    defense still dictates PACE....it's not a coincidence that the PACE picked up once hand-checking was curtailed yet again. Hand-checking + zone defense made defense as tough as it has ever been. Spurs and piston made a religion out of holding teams to 80 pts and lower.

    I get what you're saying, but the defensive rules are what dictates the PACE of play.
    It does. But not in a way that you think.

    One theory is that defense actually increase the pacing:

    [quote]
    Contrary to what we might initially assume, as defense gets better the league

  7. #7
    Decent college freshman Calabis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku
    How you calculate it:

    The lower the defensive stat is, the better your defense is.

    The Defensive rating stat is simply:



    - http://www.basketball-reference.com/...y.html#def_rtg

    This means you divide points allowed and 100 by the number of possessions.

    There are a lot of ways to calculate the number of possessions, but it is usually calculated by this formula for the defensive equation:



    - http://sonicscentral.com/statsite.html (this site shows the many ways you could calculate for different situations)

    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APBRmet...mon_statistics

    Also when you do your own calculation, don't be mad if your calculation is slightly off.



    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APBRmet...mon_statistics

    To sum it up, you have to do this formula:

    Points allowed * 100/.96 * (FGA − ORb + TO + (.44 * FTA))



    How to use it:

    The defensive rating is suppose to measure the quality of defense. But it is invalid to compare it other seasons because defensive rating is proportional to the possessions and pacing. When the number of possessions goes up, the defensive rating also goes up. This is also true for the offensive rating:


    - http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/helpscrn/rtgs.html

    This is list of the average number of possessions each year:



    - http://arturogalletti.wordpress.com/...ting-for-pace/

    As the number of possessions goes down, you would see defensive rating goes up. Notice how 2004 has the lowest possession rating out of 32 years span (exclude 1999). It also has the lowest pacing. It's no coincidence that year also had the lowest defensive rating.

    This also could mean that 2003-04 wasn't the best defensive year. It just means that the league was incredibly slow. If you would have put those teams in another era, they would probably been force to run more. This is true with other great teams, vice versa.

    The defensive rating is inflated with the number of possessions you have. It is only valid when comparing with a similar pacing/possession rating season. It may be only right to use defensive rating for one season at a time instead of comparing.
    LMAO!!!!!!!! Try explaining that to YAOLEFTFOOT

  8. #8
    Decent college freshman Calabis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku
    It does. But not in a way that you think.

    One theory is that defense actually increase the pacing:



    - http://www.shoot-hoops.com/defensive...k-defense-era/

    But pacing is not that. Usually it just means more possessions and the game is faster. What defense is suppose to do is stop you from scoring. Any team could adjust the pace of the game. The slowest team in the game isn't exactly the best team defensive.

    And:



    - http://forums.statfox.com/statfoxnew...cleid~5959.htm

    So, it could be the exact opposite sometimes.


    Pacing just means that you have more possessions, which could mean that you play a lot faster. Teams can slow the game down, and participate in a longer half court offense. But it doesn't mean that the defense is better because the game is faster or slower.

    This just shows that the pacing is different. People in the 80s used to run down the court, set a screen and shoot the ball, mid-range. People in the 00s walk down, set multiple screens, and shoot the 3. Different styles.
    Goshdamn someone with some damn sense ......can you by chance do a rating of the 87-88, 88-89 Pistons D with the adjusted pace factor, they had a 102.9 with a 98 Pace Factor(I believe in 87-88), I'm sure if it was lower they would have a lower rating

  9. #9
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    Hint:

    The number of possessions used is different for every team and every year of the formula.

    Example 1. My team gives up 100 pts to the fast paced Warriors (100 possessions)

    100/100 multiplied by 100 = 100.0 DEF RATING

    Example 2 My team gives up 100 pts to the slower paced Pistons (75 possessions)

    100/75 multiplied by 100= 133.3 DEF RATING
    Indeed. You just showed why possessions do matter in evaluating defensive rating.

    If the possessions are high, you have more offensive possessions. Which means you would have more chances to score and defensive stops.

    If you have lower possessions, then you would have less chances to stop a person. Your second example showed a demonstration of bad defense while the 1st showed an example of better defense.

    The 1st example had the opposing team with more possessions of the ball, and they did a better job limiting the opposing team to 100. While the 2nd example had the less amount of possessions, but scored the same amount of points.

    This shows that defensive rating is proportional to possessions.
    Last edited by Micku; 03-30-2011 at 10:59 AM.

  10. #10
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku
    Indeed. You just showed why possessions do matter in evaluating defensive rating.

    If the possessions are high, you have more offensive possessions. Which means you would have more chances to score and defensive stops.

    If you have lower possessions, then you would have less chances to stop a person. Your second example showed a demonstration of bad defense while the 1st showed an example of better defense.

    The 1st example had the opposing team with more possessions of the ball, and they did a better job limiting the opposing team to 100. While the 2nd example had the same amount of possessions, but scored the same amount of points.

    This shows that defensive rating is proportional to possessions.
    Of course it is. Its points allowed per 100 possessions. It normalizes points allowed so that you can compare it in a slow paced league and a fast paced one. That doesn't make it unfair.

  11. #11
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku
    Indeed. You just showed why possessions do matter in evaluating defensive rating.

    If the possessions are high, you have more offensive possessions. Which means you would have more chances to score and defensive stops.

    If you have lower possessions, then you would have less chances to stop a person. Your second example showed a demonstration of bad defense while the 1st showed an example of better defense.

    The 1st example had the opposing team with more possessions of the ball, and they did a better job limiting the opposing team to 100. While the 2nd example had the same amount of possessions, but scored the same amount of points.

    This shows that defensive rating is proportional to possessions.
    Look again


  12. #12
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    Of course it is. Its points allowed per 100 possessions. It normalizes points allowed so that you can compare it in a slow paced league and a fast paced one. That doesn't make it unfair.
    It does make it unfair. Because it is proportional the number of possessions. If the possessions are higher, then the defensive rating goes higher.

    Since possessions also adds the amount of FGA, it is unfair to compare a league who averages less possessions than a team that averages more possessions. It doesn't work that way.

    And with the 2nd one

    "While the 2nd example had the less amount of possessions, but scored the same amount of points."

    Sorry for the typo.

    ---

    And I see what you did. Usually there are more possessions, the team scores more. This also adds into pacing.

    When you put in a team who average 75 possessions and allowed 100 points, it showed bad defense than a team who allowed 100 points with 100 possessions. That 75 possessions team would have a very high FG% rating probably, or just kept scoring like mad.

    It doesn't work that way though. Usually more FGA means more chances for FG make. And since the FG of the 80s were in the 50% or above, it also shows that it's inflated.
    Last edited by Micku; 03-30-2011 at 11:06 AM.

  13. #13
    You're welcome Yao Ming's Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku
    It does make it unfair. Because it is proportional the number of possessions. If the possessions are higher, [B]then the defensive rating goes higher.

    Since possessions also adds the amount of FGA, it is unfair to compare a league who averages less possessions than a team that averages more possessions. It doesn't work that way.

    And with the 2nd one

    "While the 2nd example had the less amount of possessions, but scored the same amount of points."

    Sorry for the typo.
    Def rating is impacted by how many pts you give up per possession. Thats it. If you only give 1 pt per possession in a 300 possession per game league your D Rating is 100. If you give up only 1 pt per possession in a 10 possession per game league its still 100.

  14. #14
    LilBTheBasedGod
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    gay

  15. #15
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
    Def rating is impacted by how many pts you give up per possession. Thats it. If you only give 1 pt per possession in a 300 possession per game league your D Rating is 100. If you give up only 1 pt per possession in a 10 possession per game league its still 100.
    Exactly. And if a team has more possessions, it usually leads to more scoring across the board. At least more chances of scoring.

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