Walt Frazier: If Wilt Was Playing Today He'd Average 75 A Game

[PHILA]

1971 Highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRmCBYymM0#t=14m3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=28m16s


1972 Highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=32m29s


Based on recaps of 1972 WCF, KAJ outplayed him in games 1, 2, & 4 while Wilt got the better of him in games 3, 5, & 6.


After Gm. 3, 1971:

St. Joseph Gazette - Apr 16, 1971






The Milwaukee Sentinel - Apr 15, 1972






High Above Courtside: The Lost Memoirs of Johnny Most - Mike Carey, Jamie Most






The Bryan Times - Feb 6, 1971







After the '72 WCF:


[I]The Milwaukee Journal - Apr. 24, 1972

Abdul-Jabbar failed to outplay either Nate Thurmond of the Golden State Warriors or Wilt Chamberlain of the Los Angeles Lakers in the playoffs, and his inability to contain Chamberlain finally made the difference in the Laker series that ended in disaster at the Arena Saturday

Matter of Muscle

In the first round series with the Warriors, Abdul-Jabbar outrebounded Thurmond 95-89, but was outscored, 127-114. The Bucks won the series, four games to one.

In the semifinal series with the Lakers, Abdul-Jabbar had a tremendous edge in scoring, 202-67, but was outrebounded, 116-105, and was outmuscled by a greater margin than that. He actually reached the point on occasion where he was intimidated by Chamberlain as he headed toward the basket, and who ever heard of the big Buck being intimidated?

The Lakers eliminated the Bucks in six games, and the turning point occurred, with the series tied 2-2, when Chamberlain took advantage of his tremendous advantage in weight and strength and began pushing Abdul-Jabbar around. Wilt is listed at 275 pounds but probably weighs 290, to Abdul-Jabbar

[millwad]

Actually you're wrong.

A lot of guys from the 60's look like they can't dribble by today's standards, because they're consistently bouncing the ball up and down seemingly, but the actual reason behind this was that that's how you had to dribble the ball in order to not get cold for a carry back then.

If a player like wade who consistently nearly underpalms the ball, and side-palms it ALL the time to push it ahead of him would play in the 60s he'd get called for carries every single time he touches the ball.

The dribbling styles were different back then because the refereeing was also different.

Is that also why plenty of guards of that era problems with dribbling the ball with their "wrong" hand? I even saw an all-star game from '62 if I recall correctly where no one during the warm-ups lay in the ball with their left hand on the left sided lay-up.

[jlauber]

Yes, he OUTPLAYED Kareem while Kareem taking a huge dump in Wilt's face while averaging 40 points per game on him in the regular season and then outscoring him with 23 points per game in the playoffs.. ON BETTER FG%, you jerk.

When was the last time a center got SCHOOLED a player who averaged 40 points on him over 5 games in the regular season and then outscoring him with 23 points per game in the playoffs on better FG% while also outassisting him..

Just a COUPLE of quick sources...

and thanks to ThaRegul8r for the one below...

[QUOTE]Kareem

[millwad]

Jlauber still doesn't know what "decisively" means. And it's funny, that is the only thing you have to prove that Wilt "crushed" Kareem in '72 while getting outscored by 23 points a game on bette FG% and also outassisting Wilt.

Kareem had bad games in the last games of the series but his performance can't be taken away from him, especially not considering that he also didn't let poor Wilt score and when he tried he did it with horrible FG% compared to the few shots he dared to take.

[jlauber]

PHILA beat me to it...

[Kiarip]

Is that also why plenty of guards of that era problems with dribbling the ball with their "wrong" hand? I even saw an all-star game from '62 if I recall correctly where no one during the warm-ups lay in the ball with their left hand on the left sided lay-up.

... guards were way worse back then, and perimeter players in general... I thought this was common knowledge?

The game was very much big man dominated back then.

[jlauber]

... guards were way worse back then, and perimeter players in general... I thought this was common knowledge?

The game was very much big man dominated back then.

Watch footage of Pistol Pete and get back to me. And very few would ever have claimed that Maravich was the best guard of his era, either.

There were MANY great "dribblers." I won't waste the time now, but there was footage of a Celts-Royals playoffs, and Em Bryant, who I am sure that no one has ever heard of, was doing behind-his-back dribbling. And Oscar was FAR more efficient in terms of ball-handling.

My god, the HARLEM GLOBETROTTERS were packing arenas in the 60's.

And, we have blown this myth that West couldn't dribble with his left hand to bits here.

Sure, PALMING and CARRYING were illegal back then. Today's guards wouldn't make it across the half court line if it was called now.

[Kiarip]

Watch footage of Pistol Pete and get back to me. And very few would ever have claimed that Maravich was the best guard of his era, either.

There were MANY great "dribblers." I won't waste the time now, but there was footage of a Celts-Royals playoffs, and Em Bryant, who I am sure that no one has ever heard of, was doing behind-his-back dribbling. And Oscar was FAR more efficient in terms of ball-handling.

My god, the HARLEM GLOBETROTTERS were packing arenas in the 60's.

And, we have blown this myth that West couldn't dribble with his left hand to bits here.

Sure, PALMING and CARRYING were illegal back then. Today's guards wouldn't make it across the half court line if it was called now.

guards were worse with the left hand than they are now. A lot of them couldn't finish with their left.

[ZenMaster]

Ok, then based on your take...Kareem and Hakeem would also be reduced to the sub-levels of play by the 2011 centers, as well.


Now, unless you are willing to claim that neither Kareem, nor Hakeem, would be worth a damn in the TODAY's NBA, then you better accept the fact that a PRIME Wilt would be even more dominant.

Worth a damn? Did I say Wilt wouldn't be worth a damn in 2011?

What I said was that he wouldn't average 30+.

You're losing your mind in copy paste numbers and you never talk about the game.

[Jacks3]

This nicca would be nothing more than a poor man's Kwame Brown today.

[jlauber]

This nicca would be nothing more than a poor man's Kwame Brown today.

More likely that Kwame would not have even been a LaRue Martin in Wilt's era.

[jlauber]

Worth a damn? Did I say Wilt wouldn't be worth a damn in 2011?

What I said was that he wouldn't average 30+.

You're losing your mind in copy paste numbers and you never talk about the game.

Maybe, maybe not. Just because we have only have ONE decent center in today's NBA (and NO ONE with half a brain would argue with that statement), does not mean that defensive schemes are better today. Even Howard has slowly become a better offensive player, and I don't see him having a PRIME Wilt's skills, nor size, length, power, or athleticism.

[ZenMaster]

Maybe, maybe not. Just because we have only have ONE decent center in today's NBA (and NO ONE with half a brain would argue with that statement), does not mean that defensive schemes are better today. Even Howard has slowly become a better offensive player, and I don't see him having a PRIME Wilt's skills, nor size, length, power, or athleticism.

Are you really trying to say defensive schemes aren't better today than 40 years ago? (Because NO ONE with half a brain would argue with that statement).