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Old 03-23-2009, 10:28 AM   #1
Real Men Wear Green
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Default Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Proof that God has a sense of humor

In a lame attempt to act like this is worth discussing, I will now pose a philosophical question: Is there any moral value in a deathbed confession? If God is omnipotent then God knows everything you've ever done and every bad thought you've ever had. So why is God going to be so impressed by a coward that hid his evil deeds up until he couldn't be punished by the law for them? If this guy had died, how does this console the family of the victim to learn of the confession 32 years after the act with the criminal having successfully evaded the justice system? He is only saying this for what he feels is his own benefit. After a lifetime of doing wrong, he and people like him figure that a useless admission that won't affect them will somehow get them in good with God. But again, won't God know why you've been hiding the truth all of these years, not to mention what the truth actually is? Some of our religious beliefs are truly ridiculous. I do believe in God, or at least some creative force that could be equated to that, but I don't think that we really know how God judges us with 100% certainty. How can we, when, to be frank, God does not walk around telling us exactly what's on his/her/them/it's mind? All we have are the various, often confusing or obviously wrong/hypocritical teachings and actions of humans that claim divine inspiration. And the net result? Presidents that talk to Jesus and then start wars that kill hundreds of thousands, priests that **** little boys and murderers that think they'll get into heaven by admitting to **** right when they're about to die.

Well, too bad for you buddy, you're still alive.

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Old 03-23-2009, 10:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die



God knows what you did, RMWG, and he will not forget.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

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Originally Posted by pete's montreux
God knows what you did, RMWG, and he will not forget.
Didn't you watch Dark Knight? He destroyed Batman's cell phone spying machine, so that's all over.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Didn't you watch Dark Knight? He destroyed Batman's cell phone spying machine, so that's all over.

It was sonar, you can't destroy sonar!
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Epic Fail
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Proof that God has a sense of humor

In a lame attempt to act like this is worth discussing, I will now pose a philosophical question: Is there any moral value in a deathbed confession? If God is omnipotent then God knows everything you've ever done and every bad thought you've ever had. So why is God going to be so impressed by a coward that hid his evil deeds up until he couldn't be punished by the law for them?

Yes and no. It doesnt score any points upstairs, I would imagine, so if someone does it to "cleanse his soul" like this guy apparently did, it should be an epic fail. A biblical fail, so to speak.

But if you do it to put the murder case to rest, I suppose something can be said for that. It provides the family and the case with closure, seeing as they had no idea who did it beforehand. They can put a face to it and have some idea of the fate of the guy who took their son/brother/friend.

All in all, you're still a scumbag either way. And i'm glad God gave this guy a new lease on life so he can get his living comeuppance before he gets his eternal one.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Proof that God has a sense of humor

In a lame attempt to act like this is worth discussing, I will now pose a philosophical question: Is there any moral value in a deathbed confession? If God is omnipotent then God knows everything you've ever done and every bad thought you've ever had. So why is God going to be so impressed by a coward that hid his evil deeds up until he couldn't be punished by the law for them? If this guy had died, how does this console the family of the victim to learn of the confession 32 years after the act with the criminal having successfully evaded the justice system? He is only saying this for what he feels is his own benefit. After a lifetime of doing wrong, he and people like him figure that a useless admission that won't affect them will somehow get them in good with God. But again, won't God know why you've been hiding the truth all of these years, not to mention what the truth actually is? Some of our religious beliefs are truly ridiculous. I do believe in God, or at least some creative force that could be equated to that, but I don't think that we really know how God judges us with 100% certainty. How can we, when, to be frank, God does not walk around telling us exactly what's on his/her/them/it's mind? All we have are the various, often confusing or obviously wrong/hypocritical teachings and actions of humans that claim divine inspiration. And the net result? Presidents that talk to Jesus and then start wars that kill hundreds of thousands, priests that **** little boys and murderers that think they'll get into heaven by admitting to **** right when they're about to die.

Well, too bad for you buddy, you're still alive.

confession/reconciliation serves the good of the formation of a person. implicit in the act is a resolve to change one's behavior-- often restitution for the harm that one has caused

in this sense, you are right in saying that a death bed confession can be motivated by a "selfish" intention. it falls short in being a salve for the victims of the offense and could be done out of fear more than a desire to made right in one's relationships

the difficulty is that we really dont know the totality of a person's life. we may see various aspects/acts but we really dont know others-- we have a difficult enough time knowing ourselves

so ultimate judgment is God's alone and as humans we cannot presume to know the extent of how God judges and how "merciful" God really is

but dont confuse human beings sinfulness for how God might see and work in this world. eventhough there are sinful priests and presidents, it doesnt reflect the whole of christianity and the mystery of God by any means
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:09 AM   #8
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

True, there are certainly good people in Christianity but that could be said of any religion. With so many bad people, however, in high positions in Christianity and other religions how can we really be sure that Christianity is the correct teaching? The Pope, leader of the oldest established Christian Church, just the other day told millions of people in Africa, many of them with STDs they don't know about yet, that they shouldn't be using condoms. I just can't accept any religious figure as the real authority at this point.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
confession/reconciliation serves the good of the formation of a person. implicit in the act is a resolve to change one's behavior-- often restitution for the harm that one has caused

in this sense, you are right in saying that a death bed confession can be motivated by a "selfish" intention. it falls short in being a salve for the victims of the offense and could be done out of fear more than a desire to made right in one's relationships

the difficulty is that we really dont know the totality of a person's life. we may see various aspects/acts but we really dont know others-- we have a difficult enough time knowing ourselves

so ultimate judgment is God's alone and as humans we cannot presume to know the extent of how God judges and how "merciful" God really is

but dont confuse human beings sinfulness for how God might see and work in this world. eventhough there are sinful priests and presidents, it doesnt reflect the whole of christianity and the mystery of God by any means


I'v always had a problem believing that, The thing is You are taking the men who wrote the bibles WORD FOR IT, regular men that say that GOD SPOKE TO THEM, now the bible has been proven wrong. So the men that wrote the bible say that it is god who wrote the bible, sooo

By that, we can argue that someone gave us false information(Think of world being round, earth was center of universe). The men who wrote the bible, or God. God ethier told them that the world was flat, and lied or the men that wrote the bible, lied and said God told him that. Pick your poisen.


I also have a problem with this whole confessing to a priest thing. Really, if every man is made equal, then why do we have to confess our sins to another man who is not God? A priest? Why? God knows all of our sins, thoughts, actions etc?

Do we really have free will? If so, how is God all knowing?? (Going by the bible) If the meaning of life, is actually a test. A test to see if you want to be with God or not, yet God is all knowing, he knows the future, and he knows what paths you are going to choose since he is all knowing. So your choice of heaven or hell, has already been set. He knows where your going to end up, he is all knowing. So why live? Whats the point of life now? Does God play favorites?

PLEASE... can someone give me some answers because I am pretty confused on this subject
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)


I'v always had a problem believing that, The thing is You are taking the men who wrote the bibles WORD FOR IT, regular men that say that GOD SPOKE TO THEM, now the bible has been proven wrong. So the men that wrote the bible say that it is god who wrote the bible, sooo

By that, we can argue that someone gave us false information(Think of world being round, earth was center of universe). The men who wrote the bible, or God. God ethier told them that the world was flat, and lied or the men that wrote the bible, lied and said God told him that. Pick your poisen.


I also have a problem with this whole confessing to a priest thing. Really, if every man is made equal, then why do we have to confess our sins to another man who is not God? A priest? Why? God knows all of our sins, thoughts, actions etc?

Do we really have free will? If so, how is God all knowing?? (Going by the bible) If the meaning of life, is actually a test. A test to see if you want to be with God or not, yet God is all knowing, he knows the future, and he knows what paths you are going to choose since he is all knowing. So your choice of heaven or hell, has already been set. He knows where your going to end up, he is all knowing. So why live? Whats the point of life now? Does God play favorites?

PLEASE... can someone give me some answers because I am pretty confused on this subject

Those are all really good questions, and, truth be told, one of the simplest answers is the rejection of the classical idea of god.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:53 AM   #11
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

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Those are all really good questions, and, truth be told, one of the simplest answers is the rejection of the classical idea of religion.

I just changed the one word of your post

Religion is the problem
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

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Originally Posted by HisAirness
Those are all really good questions, and, truth be told, one of the simplest answers is the rejection of the classical idea of god.



By that.

you mean rejecting the idea of the judea-christian traditional God?

Because, Idk.. That maybe where I stand. I Believe in (a) God, but it's religion that is pretty sketchy..
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
I just changed the one word of your post

Religion is the problem



I didnt even read your post, before I posted the one above.
Took the words out of my mouth.

But now the question is, if you dont believe in a religion, do you believe in the same all powerfull, all knowing God?

Because I am not sure if I do..
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)
By that.

you mean rejecting the idea of the judea-christian traditional God?

Because, Idk.. That maybe where I stand. I Believe in (a) God, but it's religion that is pretty sketchy..

Trust me, I've been there.

For me, all the suffering, all the contradictions, all the lies, all the hope and all of the sheer unbelievable things only made sense when I became an atheist.

If you stick with Yahweh/Allah and his irreconcilable attributes (the "omnis"), chances are you may never be satisfied. I would recommend getting comfortable with the notion of agnosticism or atheism, but I really don't want to rob you of your spirituality, so the best I can say to someone of, what appears to me at least, your skeptical nature, is to stick with a more unconventional and personal type of spirituality.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Man admits to murder on deathbed, then fails to die

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)


I'v always had a problem believing that, The thing is You are taking the men who wrote the bibles WORD FOR IT, regular men that say that GOD SPOKE TO THEM, now the bible has been proven wrong. So the men that wrote the bible say that it is god who wrote the bible, sooo

By that, we can argue that someone gave us false information(Think of world being round, earth was center of universe). The men who wrote the bible, or God. God ethier told them that the world was flat, and lied or the men that wrote the bible, lied and said God told him that. Pick your poisen.


I also have a problem with this whole confessing to a priest thing. Really, if every man is made equal, then why do we have to confess our sins to another man who is not God? A priest? Why? God knows all of our sins, thoughts, actions etc?

Do we really have free will? If so, how is God all knowing?? (Going by the bible) If the meaning of life, is actually a test. A test to see if you want to be with God or not, yet God is all knowing, he knows the future, and he knows what paths you are going to choose since he is all knowing. So your choice of heaven or hell, has already been set. He knows where your going to end up, he is all knowing. So why live? Whats the point of life now? Does God play favorites?

PLEASE... can someone give me some answers because I am pretty confused on this subject

one cannot give you answers when it comes to the mysteries of life, death, love and God-- you have to stumble upon them, search for them, be open to them, be surprised by them, wrestle with them

religion is nothing if it isnt people's experience of God and the interpretations that we give these experiences-- that is what the scriptures are and that is why we have to interpret them

but we do not do all of this on our own-- we do it with the (imperfect) help of others. we learn who we are in relation to others-- God as the ultimate (and innate) other
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