Lebron isn't a killer, it isn't his personality.

[Marchesk]

Titles don't define how competitive you were if your in the caliber of Wilt or Oscar or West, or Baylor, or Russell, they define how great your teams were, and how lucky you were. In that tier of player, you have to be INSANELY competitive just to be there, your not gifted a spot, or able to settle in with slightly less competitiveness just because your physically dominant. Not from what I can tell based on testimonials of these guys at least.

So would you say that Shaq was just as competitive as Kobe is? Phil has said that Shaq should have gone down as the GOAT. Give Kobe Shaq's body and is there any question?

Does Lebron have the same will to win as MJ? MJ doesn't lose that series against the Mavs. He wouldn't let the Spurs take it to seven games.

Maybe competitive isn't the right word. Killer instinct would be better as the OP mentioned. In another thread, it was brought up that Russell would have run a hurting Reed into the ground, but Wilt was too nice.

Granted, it is speculation unless you have someone in the know on record stating that. But one does wonder why Wilt didn't take more advantage of that matchup. The thing is that Russell's teams always won. The Celtics winning against the Lakers in the 69 when they were big underdogs is just one more example of that. It's as if Russell had his team wanting it more.

[CavaliersFTW]

So would you say that Shaq was just as competitive as Kobe is? Does Lebron have the same will to win as MJ? Maybe competitive isn't the right word. Killer instinct would be better as mentioned earlier. In another thread, it was brought up that Russell would have run a hurting Reed into the ground, but Wilt was too nice.

Granted, it is speculation unless you have someone in the know on record stating that. But one does wonder why Wilt didn't take more advantage of that matchup.

I don't have a problem with considering West extremely competitive and clutch, despite his teams losing eight finals. I do sometimes wonder about Wilt and Oscar, though.

Oscars blood would boil at the sound of that, Oscar was tit for tat the MJ of his time mentally. He was the player of that generation that would give his TEAMMATES hell when they weren't competing the way he wanted them too, just like MJ. He just didn't play for a competitive franchise along side another superstar until his twilight. Imagine if Michael Jordan played for say, the Kings or the Grizzlies for 90% of his entire career and only in his twilight got traded to a franchise with the right pieces to contend? You'd be talking about him the same way, asking questions about his competitive drive that really shouldn't need to be asked. Just listen to Oscar talk in interviews, you can tell he was an intense, and I mean very intense competitor - he still talks that way. Shaq is also a competitor, any guys who were superstars, and I mean real superstars - faces of the league for over a decade, are the most competitive players to have every played the game. Even Lebron, and I hate the guy, is far far more competitive than the media paints him to be.

[TonyMontana]

. Jordan and Kobe are like Bill Russell.

Yeah your right, they all win championships because they play on stacked teams.

Haha @ kids acting like a Kobe/Jordan/Russell ring where they played on stacked teams counts as much as a LeBron/Wilt ring where they had to dominate ALL areas of the game and carry underwhelming casts to championships.

[Marchesk]

Oscars blood would boil at the sound of that, Oscar was tit for tat the MJ of his time mentally. He was the player of that generation that would give his TEAMMATES hell when they weren't competing the way he wanted them too, just like MJ. He just didn't play for a competitive franchise along side another superstar until his twilight. Imagine if Michael Jordan played for say, the Kings or the Grizzlies for 90% of his entire career and only in his twilight got traded to a franchise with the right pieces to contend? You'd be talking about him the same way, asking questions about his competitive drive that really shouldn't need to be asked. Just listen to Oscar talk in interviews, you can tell he was an intense, and I mean very intense competitor - he still talks that way. Shaq is also a competitor, any guys who were superstars, and I mean real superstars - faces of the league for over a decade, are the most competitive players to have every played the game. Even Lebron, and I hate the guy, is far far more competitive than the media paints him to be.

I edited my post to remove Oscar after thinking about it a bit. I think the OP's point still stands. There is superstar level of competitiveness, and then there is MJ level. That's the biggest thing that set Jordan apart from his peers. The mentality to win at all costs. To always want the final shot. And it seems that Russell had that same will to win.

[Marchesk]

Yeah your right, they all win championships because they play on stacked teams.

Haha @ kids acting like a Kobe/Jordan/Russell ring where they played on stacked teams counts as much as a LeBron/Wilt ring where they had to dominate ALL areas of the game and carry underwhelming casts to championships.

You mean like the Heat in 2011?

[Doranku]

Must be hard to win a championship when you have byes in the first and second rounds.

[plowking]

Seems as if many people mistake competitiveness for demeanor.
Just because Jordan, Bird and Kobe were mean mofos on the outside, doesn't make them any more competitive than Shaq, Lebron, Wilt or Magic.

[iamgine]

Lebron is more like Magic and Nash. Man Nash used to wreck defenses all by himself.

[I<3NBA]

only on ISH is being a jerk equated to a winning mentality and being friendly is immediately labeled as beta mentality.

[Marchesk]

only on ISH is being a jerk equated to a winning mentality and being friendly is immediately labeled as beta mentality.

MJ would never defer. I might like Lebron better in person, but when the chips are down, I'm taking Jordan on my team. And Russell would have exploited Reed's injury. That's what you do as a competitor. If the competition is going to play with an injury, you take advantage of that. You don't play nice.

[Darius]

but he will never be the ultra competitive asshole that made Jordan and Kobe so endearing

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron is the best player in NBA history.

[DaSeba5]

So he has to be an egotistic asshole to be competitive? Ok got it. He can't just have a calm demeanor and play basketball. Just because he doesn't act like Jordan and Kobe doesn't mean he doesn't have their competitiveness.

[SilkkTheShocker]

So he has to be an egotistic asshole to be competitive? Ok got it. He can't just have a calm demeanor and play basketball.

Back to back championships and 4 MVPs in 5 seasons. But he doesn't talk trash, gamble, sexually assault ugly hotel workers, etc so its a weakness.

[DaSeba5]

Back to back championships and 4 MVPs in 5 seasons. But he doesn't talk trash, gamble, sexually assault ugly hotel workers, etc so its a weakness.

I'm no LeBron stan, but these people are grasping at straws at this point.