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Old 01-16-2008, 09:58 AM   #1
SoCalMike
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Default Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

Please read this one... it underscores a lot of what I said in other threads about "Kobe Ball." Other players need to get into rhythm as well, and Kobe's hog ball took other players out of rhythm. I am glad to see that Pjax and I see eye to eye on this particular subject.

To view the entire article, click on the source below:
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Quote:

The triangle was distorted, the offense unbalanced.

Somewhere, Tex Winter, the architect of the triangle offense, was cringing.

The Lakers didn't win a game in Seattle as much as they survived it, sneaking past the SuperSonics in overtime Monday night thanks to Kobe Bryant's season-high 48 points. Or maybe it was despite Bryant's 48 points.

Bryant took a staggering 44 shots in 42 minutes, only three shots shy of his career high in a game.

He made 21 of them, but teammates began deferring to him and passing up their own shots as the game progressed, notably Luke Walton and Lamar Odom. Both were yanked by Coach Phil Jackson early in overtime and sat out a little more than a minute before returning.

Odom seemed particularly surprised, taking a long, slow walk to the bench as the substitutes entered.

Odom and Walton combined for 10 points on four-for-21 shooting.

Jackson, a longtime proponent of the share-the-ball mind-set, didn't seem enthralled with what he saw from Bryant, comparing his shot count to whacking a bunch of golf balls and occasionally hitting some good ones.

Jackson then suggested how to restore what had been a balanced offense, even though the task has become more daunting with injured center Andrew Bynum out for at least eight weeks.

"Try to get Lamar and Luke in a rhythm," Jackson said. "Lamar just had an awful night and kept passing the ball. Fortunately for us, we found a way to win."



Source: Victory wasn't a shared experience



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Old 01-16-2008, 10:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

No it wasn't but in fairness luke and lamar shot soo bad kobe had to bring out his 'show'. I don't think that'll e the case over the next 2 months, the whole team momentum and rythmn was all shot to pieces. The Kobe show was needed that night just to pull through and keep us on track, with a few practises under the belt we can expect laker TEAM basketball. I just wish Lamar would see this as an opportunity to show all us fans how good he is, but knowing him he'll play about 4 decent games, and average about 8pts for the rest.
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

Listening to the losse cannons yesterday, they debated this very topic.
I usually side strongly with Vick and MT, but I certainly understood Hartman's side on this issue.
If LO started off so bad, like he did, Kobe should use his "greatness" to get his teamates some easy shots and get them going.
That's the mark of a truley great player. And that's the only way this team will survive; together.
I am glad that we won, and I understand that at times, a great player needs to take over, but I felt Kobe could have and should have done more to involve his teamates. I understand they were off, but why not help them get some easy shots to get their confidence going.
Kobe should know by now, you win as a team in this league, not as an individual.
44 shots was ridiculous.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

I have a very different opinion on this subject:

1 - the team was flat coming off of a spirited difficult win the night before. Luke, Odom and Fisher were off - big time. There was a lack of movement and it seemed as though they just wasn't ready to play that game.
2 - they lost one of their key players and had little time to prepare for the second of a back to back. Players had to play different roles in this game, so that could have contributed to the lack of movement. Think of a practice after a tough game. That's what it looked like. They were slow to their spots, often confused. The second unit actually bailed them out.

That said, Kobe is a competitor. He wants to win games - he hates losing. He saw his team was down, wasn't hitting their shots and was very flat footed. He could have lollygagged and passed all game long - and probably would have lost, or he could have put the team on his shoulders and muscled out a win.

No one complained about Jordan doing the SAME EXACT THING, but we ***** about Kobe. It makes no sense. Jordan comes out of a game with 50 points and the team wins by 2, they say how great he is...blah blah blah. Kobe does the same thing and he gets called selfish.

Did Jordan trust his teammates? On some occassions, but others he knew that if he didn't put up 30 or 40, there was no way they were winning. And if Pippen and/or Grant was off, he had to put 50 up.

I hate that Jordan received all of the MVP honors because of his "greatness", but Kobe gets none. This year, Kobe is having an outstanding season, but all people talk about is Garnett this and Garnett that. If Kobe had Allen and Pierce, they would be undefeated now. Trust that.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster89
Listening to the losse cannons yesterday, they debated this very topic.
I usually side strongly with Vick and MT, but I certainly understood Hartman's side on this issue.
If LO started off so bad, like he did, Kobe should use his "greatness" to get his teamates some easy shots and get them going.
That's the mark of a truley great player. And that's the only way this team will survive; together.
I am glad that we won, and I understand that at times, a great player needs to take over, but I felt Kobe could have and should have done more to involve his teamates. I understand they were off, but why not help them get some easy shots to get their confidence going.
Kobe should know by now, you win as a team in this league, not as an individual.
44 shots was ridiculous.

Thank you for posting this. To Netdoc's point about everyone being flat (and he's right), you could make a reasonable argument that Kobe could have tried to get these guys going as their leader. He certainly did not do that and took it upon himself to try to win the game. Honestly, that won't work against better teams in the long run.

It is difficult to compare Jordan. I mentioned my reasons in another thread. It was just a completely different dynamic and league at the time so it is unfair to make the comparison.

There is no doubt that the TEAM has some challenges ahead of them. There is no doubt that they have to step it up on their own, but at the same time, it is very important that their leader step it up as well and find a way to get these guys going. The entire team needs to be in rhythm for them to win, plain and simple. If that does not happen, the Lakers tank.



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Old 01-16-2008, 01:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

what a load of crap from some of you guys.
That was NOT a return to "Kobe Ball", unless you define such as...
teammates stinking it up so bad that the team had no option but for Kobe to score.

Kobe passed the ball plenty. Odom had his opportunities, even down the stretch, and he nearly broke the backboard with his ugly shot.

simply put, he was WAYYY off (and Fish wasn't much better).
a. Kobe
b. Kwame ('nuf said)
c. Luke (did he even play? he was invisible).

I don't want to hear the BS that Kobe's "greatness" should have gotten Fish/Odom shots. They had opportunities and did nothing with them.

Now, having said that, if it continues this way while Odom/Fish are playing well, then I would have a real problem with that. I do not expect Kobe to take 40+ shots again unless no one else is hitting.
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

People who immediately rush to push the negative "Kobe Ball" banter, are jumping over the facts.


I for one believe that we found our selves fortunate to pull out the sonics game. We are fortunate to have a player that can literaly take over a game, make key shots, and carry the team to a win.

Was it the ideal way to win? Of course not.

Was it the way we always win? Nope.. this teams been playing team ball most of the season.

Was it a ship sinking? Purty much.. no one outside of KB was producing (and was still ill...), in that seattle game. So to have Bryant win the game for the team is not the worse thing that could happen.


If we recall back to that first game of the season against houston, every one was begining to question if this was to become "Kobe Ball". But as we were able to find out, the rest of the team regrouped and became playing team ball.

Now all we have to hope, is that in these few days off that they have before the Suns game, that they regroup and think of a way to run this new team and the different dynamic that it will have, seeing as how Bynum is no longer in the equation.

I rather have a go to guy like KB to bail the team out when the game is ugly and unproductive.. than to have no chance at all.

Im sure the sonics are kicking themselves for not having won that game.. cause it was theirs to take

Last edited by ZeN : 01-16-2008 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

Quote:
It is difficult to compare Jordan. I mentioned my reasons in another thread. It was just a completely different dynamic and league at the time so it is unfair to make the comparison.

different era, same game

You will have to enlighten me on what dynamics have changed in the game. They still do play 5 on 5 don't they?
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

All said and done Kobe did what he had to do to keep the ship afloat. I'm sure we wont have to see too many of the same type of games, but if need be it'll be fine. We all know this is gona be a tough time, and if it takes like - BleedinpurpleTwo said '40+ shots a night'- then so be it. Remember If kobe had taken 43 shots we would have lost to seattle, seattle one of the worst tems in the league. Last week if someone had said 'lakers have good numers across the board but lose to the sonics, or Kobe puts up 48 and wins in overtime' which one would you take. The win everytime!
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

odom took 15 shots....did he honestly need more to prove himself?

I'm not even gonna get started on Walton. Nothing but poor shooting from these guys.

Thank God for the second unit for being a little bit of help that game. They did their part.

I think Fisher is going to have to do more scoring for us to win these games.

Kwame is going to need to put up some Bynum like numbers but thats unlikely.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Article: Los Angeles Times - Victory wasn't a shared experience

Usually a good player will be able to adjust himself within several games or maybe within 10 games. When they can't, then maybe they aren't great as who people try to mold them into or expect them to be. It has been almost half a season already and Luke still has not recover. Lamar did a little bit, as long he gets between 10+. I'm happy with Lamar because of his other qualities and provision, but I'm not wiht Luke. Luke...he's still flat. If they passed the ball to Kobe, then that's their fault, not Kobe's fault. Even if he did, we would have lost anyway because they haven't improve much in the past many games other than Lamar so I would disagree with Phil on this.
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