I told you all that JOHN WALL was overrated!!! He posts a 30 inch vert!!!!

[Younggrease]

1. That wasn't a eurostep.
2. How many players WANT to do that? I thought him going behind the back, catching it, and finishing with a dunk was more impressive and I would say that only a select few PG's can do that [and he did it in HS]....I just don't think that the play you pointed out was that special other than him running fast.

3. He has proven to me so far that he's an elite athlete and a superior passer. Nothing else in his game really impresses me though I need to see his handle in the pros....I know you really don't get to see the whole arsenal in college.

your right, wrong play...I cant seem to find the vid of it again. Im confused, if you think he is an elite athlete then why argue over combine numbers.

[Go Getter]

your right, wrong play...I cant seem to find the vid of it again. Im confused, if you think he is an elite athlete then why argue over combine numbers.

Not arguing over numbers, just hype.

It started out and I got kinda aggy because I really didn't see anything more than an impressive athlete...solid pro definitely, crazy potential.

But how many players can you say that about every single year?

Every year there will be a one and done player that wows everyone.

Wall's potential in college was no more or less than any other #1 pick at the time the only thing is it's been a minute since I've heard a PG reminds someon of Magic and is the most athletic ever....not one of, THE.

So I was really hard on the kid when he came to Kentucky but I can't hate dude balled out he's a stud I can't deny it.

But I'm not a san like the rest of the basketball world ready to jump all in the car with him so I can look like a genius and the first one to drive the 'new Lambo.'

He has a lot of holes in his game.

and more importantly...

He also has a lot of hype to live up to thanks to these youtube stans and nut hungry pundits...

If he doesn't win rookie of the year and go to an ASG and lead his team to the playoffs soon there are going to be a lot of people turning on him.

Right now I feel hopeful and encouraged. I think Wall will be a great player but who knows how good really? Even if he's top 5 some people won't like his game. Or maybe he does have a few years like Kobe or Lebron where it is clear he's the best player in the league at any position.

[lilojmayo]

John Wall's athletism has become the biggest myth in awhile. I made a quick video of the 08' draft class combine height measurments since their was a huge deal on Michael Beasley's height, since that was the first year I visually saw the combine. I have this combine on my DVR, I think i'll make a quick clip of John Wall stuff, to seperate the facts from the myth.

First the combine shows raw athletism, it shows strength, explosivesness, lateral quickness, jumping ability, wingspan, height, just like in the NFL. It doesn't show how good a dunker or poster/highlight dunker you are or how fast you are with the ball, or how quick your crossovers are, all the hype around Wall basically etc etc.

I'll start of by saying John Wall's raw athletism is not better in Derrick Rose's. Rose is truely a freak raw athlete, John wall is more of a freak physically then athletically. In terms of winspan and standing reach of his height. His raw athletism is almost identical to than of OJ Mayo, something fans and media don't want to hear, but Wall has physical gifts over Mayo like standing reach and winspan that make him into a walking highlight reel on the basketball court.

Where Rose is really comparable to that of an NFL player imo, especially when you factor in strength. The only thing Rose struggled with at the combine was the agility test, and if you watch how the agility test it is something Rose would struggle with. It is basically how fast you move your feet in a defensive stand, Rose has never been known for his on the ball defense.

Keep in mind that i watched all of these players combine, I am not going off internet numbers

[COLOR="Blue"]Height in shoes, standing reach, wingspan:[/COLOR]

Derrick Rose: 6'2.5 ft, 8'2.5 ft. 6'8 ft
John Wall: 6'4 ft, 8'5.5 ft, 6'9.25 ft
OJ Mayo: 6'4.25 ft, 8'3.5 ft, 6'6 ft

First and foremost it is obvious that Wall has a physical advantage over both of them. Wall 8'5.5 ft standing reach is one of the highest if not the highest i have ever seen at the combine for a guy sub 6'3 ( 6'2. 75). most guys 6'2-6'3 guys barefoot standing reaches are between 7'10-8'3 ft, so for him to have an 8'6 ft reach thats really high, means he has a high set of shoulders and long arms, pretty much an ideal body for being a dunker at that size.

[COLOR="Blue"]Standing Vertical:[/COLOR]

John Wall: 30 inches
OJ Mayo: 30.5 inches
Derrick Rose: 34.5 inches

The thing that caught my eye with Derrick Rose's standing jump compared to Wall's was how low Derrick Rose was to the ground and how fast he used his arms to propel up. He had perfect techinque. Wall on the other hand didn't look anything like that. He didn't explode like Rose did. Evan Turner when did the side by side with Wall and you could just see how much more explosive Turner jumped. Turner had a 34.5 standing vert i believe. Wall was given it his all on every drill, he simply lacked that type of raw explosiveness of a standstill.

30 inches from a standstill is nothing to be ashamed about it is above average for an athletic person. Wall is still getting 11'0 ft a whole foot over the rim because of his standing reach and arm length. That's where his physical gifts come into play when you compare him to OJ or Rose.

[COLOR="Blue"]Max Vertical[/COLOR]:

Derrick Rose: 40.0 inches
OJ Mayo: 41.0 inches
John Wall: 43.0 inches

Here is probably the most talked about athletic test in basketball, comparable to footballs 40 yrd test.

Here is the biggest myth about the test, that you get to "run" before you jump or something of that nature. When i think run i'm thinking you get to start from like halfcourt running start to the marker, so a lot of the times I here when are you ever going to be able to use your max in a game.

What the max vertical really is it basically what is it a max vertical . It is like beginning able to take 2 steps before you jump. Comparable to drop step dunk or dribbling the ball one time without traveling and dunking it. There is NO RUNNING, so if you can only jump off one foot while literally running you could struggle with this and it is very easy to reach to max vertical in a game.
Now with all 3 players i said they looked like they jumped out of the building, but with Wall he really got up. He got so high they were only like 2-3 markers untouched. His max reach is 7-8 higher than Rose, again his physical gifts come into play.

Running Vertical is what that is you get to run an unlimited amount of times before you jump. The last marker is 12'6 at the combine i believe, because it is almost impossible for anybody to touch that including Dwight Howard on a max vertical. However in a running vertical guys like James White can touch 12'11 because he has done it before. To sum it up running vertical>max vertical.

Now that this has been clarified it is very easy to see why a guy like Westbrook have sub 40 max verticals, but probably have 40 inch running verticals.

[COLOR="Blue"]3/4 Court Sprint aka 25 yard Dash: [/COLOR]

OJ Mayo: 3.14 seconds
John Wall:3.14 seconds
Derrick Rose: 3.05 seconds

Obviously it is hard to eye ball how fast someone is going running alone, for such a short distanct that only hundredths seperate ppl. One thing was clear though he doesn't have Derrick Rose north and south speed. Rose went to state championships in track and field in high school i believe for 100 m dash i think. I read something like that. I honestly think Rose is so much faster than Wall is that if they raced in 100 m because of Rose's speed and background in track that Wall would never win.

They didn't say what his agility was when he did the test, but Wall went fast, they did say it was one of the fastest at the combine, just like OJ Mayo had one of the fastest agility times at the combine a lot faster than Rose,


[COLOR="Blue"]Conclusion: [/COLOR]

John Wall's raw athletism is not only comparable, but pretty much identical to OJ Mayo. Which is nothing to be ashamed about i've seen all the numbers it is better than 90% of players that have participated in the combine since the year 2000 when they really started keeping tabs on this thing.

Guys like Derrick Rose, LeBron James, Nate Robinson are on a completely different level of raw athletism than John Wall, OJ Mayo, and Russell Westbrook in that tier as well.

Derrick Rose is truely a one of a kind NBA athlete that only happens once or twice in a decade, and that is what the NBA combine has shown. Saying Wall is more athletic than Rose would be like someone having a higher IQ, but since he has a lower GPA that means he isn't as smart as another person with a higher GPA. Like you know GPA depends on if you do H/W and pay attention or not at least in middle school. Just like highlight dunking is more than jumping ability.

John Wall is one of a kind specimen when you factor in everything. His physical traits for his height mixed with his 90% percentile athletism, his on the court skills, ball handling, ability to keep top speed with the ball in his hands and is aggresiveness some people call it being out of control. Not only could it fool you to thinking he is the more athletic then the most athletic guard in the league, but it equals walking highlight reel like he is known for, which will be fun for all nba fans to watch.

Such a long post, but i had to seperate facts from myths.

To sum it up in one sentence: Derrick Rose is on a different level of raw athletism than John Wall and there is no shame in that.

[BirmingHamBama]

To sum it up in one sentence: Derrick Rose is on a different level of raw athletism than John Wall and there is no shame in that.

Amazing post man! lilojmayo is the best poster on this forum hands down. You are the reason that I decided to join insidehoops man. I want to change my handle to lillilojmayo. It's nice to have posters who are actually diligent in researching their facts and make insightful postst.

[lilojmayo]

Amazing post man! lilojmayo is the best poster on this forum hands down. You are the reason that I decided to join insidehoops man. I want to change my handle to lillilojmayo. It's nice to have posters who are actually diligent in researching their facts and make insightful postst.

I just try to tell it as it is.

In terms on the court production etc everybody is on a different playing field your first few years in NBA. Stats might be inflated if they are the go to guy right away due to the lack of players around you like Tyreke Evans or having an uptempo system like Steph Curry.

Your stats may be deflated if you play in a defensive orientated grind it out team or playing with a bunch of ball hogs

Then after 4 or 5 years when your skill and game gets somewhat established then for the most part it is far to compare guys.

However in the combine, everybody is on a equal playing field in what they can show athletically right away, so it is very fair to compare.

[brandonislegend]

This thread has fail written all over it

[HBKMGa]

You'all laughed and said that I didn't know what I was talking about. I predicted right here on this Board that John Wall would not post higher than 30 on his vert. I was shouted down. Now word comes that he posted 30!!!

Where is OJMamba??? I had a bet with him. Come on out OJMamba, don't hide now.

And somewhat surprisingly Evan Turner posted a higher vert of 34.5

I predicted John Wall would post a 30 no step vert and 36.5 max vert. I am halfway home. He will not leap higher than 36.5 on his max.

And wow wow wow..... 30 is extremely poor. But I knew it. Dude has no bounce.


I knew that reports of his athleticism were vastly overrated. I could tell that Wall was kind of "heavy legged" and lacked the ability to be "sudden!" I could just see it in his game. Not a quick leaper, not explosive.... like I said, a bit "heavy legged". That said, when it is all said and done, he can still end up being a great basketball player.


...

john wall is a top 10 of all time overrated player

[SATAN]

Looked pretty good in the game against the Timberwolves.