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Old 09-08-2007, 08:02 PM   #76
eliteballer
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

STOP OVERRATING VC's leaping ability. He has INCREDIBLY long arms that make his dunks look more spectacular. His head is usually low on the mesh, even on the Weis dunk he wasn't rim level.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:02 PM   #77
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki

And what great dunks did VC do off of one foot in the videos you posted? I saw a lot of two-footed planting.

EricForman: I know. I just don't see how Carter is a better one-footed leaper. Even a guy like Lebron is a better one-footed leaper than Carter ever was.

The video he posted with the dunk from the freethrow is very impressive, he puts the ball way behind his head.

And what do you mean "even" a guy like LeBron? LeBron and Josh Smith are easily the best 1 footed dunkers in the NBA right now and both stack up well against any comp in that department.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:54 PM   #78
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
He certainly was. How many of Vince's great in-game dunks have come off of one foot? That's what I thought. Maybe a couple of breakaways, but nothing in the halfcourt.

All of Vince's highlight dunks on people are when he plants both feet -- the dunk on Mutombo from way back, the reverse against Indiana, the dunk on Zo a couple of seasons ago etc. He's a more explosive two-footed leaper than Jordan when he plants and can dip his knees a bit. Jordan was a better one-footed leaper and a better leaper off a hop step where you have to jump right after making contact with the ground (i.e., no wind-up with bent knees). I think this is pretty obvious, really.

Can VC do the Milwaukee cradle dunk off of one foot that I posted above? Doubtful. And that VC Toronto FT line dunk is at best comparable to Jordan's. He cocks it back, which is nice, but he doesn't do anything with his legs and body. Pumping your entire body and legs -- for however brief a period of time -- robs you of airtime. Pretty obvious. His HS "FT line" dunk is from about 3-4 feet inside the line; even from that angle you can see. And it's a plain dunk that in no way is as good as Jordan's.

There are four or five SLAMADAMONTH's VC delivered off of one foot dude you just aren't aware of them cuz your not a fan...there's one on Dirk another on Rasheed in Portland and A couple on Deke and D-Rob.....

He did that Up and under dunk off one foot on Dirk and Rasheed and a lefty dunk of the wrong foot on Deke...that was in his first or second seasons..

This body control **** is stupid too how can you really tell at their level impossible.
You are calling body movements body control but you can point to things that VC has done on dunks that MJ never did (even though he'd seen others do it) and call those body control even dunking with his left hand.....

Ball handling that's what MJ did physically better going to UNC was the worst thing VC did for his pro career skills...Antawn Jamison too....NCAA play didn't prepare them at all for their NBA perimeter responsibilities but VC adapted quicker
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:55 PM   #79
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
STOP OVERRATING VC's leaping ability. He has INCREDIBLY long arms that make his dunks look more spectacular. His head is usually low on the mesh, even on the Weis dunk he wasn't rim level.

he didn't dunk that at the highest point he actually dunks it coming down a bit beuz he takes off from far out...... It's true that he has crazy long arms though.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:05 PM   #80
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
even on the Weis dunk he wasn't rim level.

Wasn't he almost horizontal on that dunk? That was insane. I have never seen anyone fly like that.
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Old 09-09-2007, 06:42 AM   #81
Ryoga Hibiki
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Most tathletic players in the league:
C: Dwight Howard (6-11), Kwame Brown (7-0), Nene (6-11)
PF: Amare Stoudemire (6-10), Chris Wilcox (6-10), Kevin Garnett (7-0)
SF: LeBron James (6-8), Gerald Wallace (6-7), Andre Iguodala (6-7)
SG: Dwyane Wade (6-4), Jason Richardson (6-5), Kobe Bryant (6-7)
PG: Baron Davis (6-3), Steve Francis (6-2), Nate Robinson (5-9)

I don't see much of difference, the 07 guys are just bigger.
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Old 09-09-2007, 07:27 AM   #82
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
STOP OVERRATING VC's leaping ability. He has INCREDIBLY long arms that make his dunks look more spectacular. His head is usually low on the mesh, even on the Weis dunk he wasn't rim level.

isn't VC a world class high jumper?
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:17 PM   #83
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Hey, another episode of "Let's cherry-pick for the glory of yesteryear!"


I won't do your whole list, but I'll look at the big forwards:

Karl Malone: 6'9", 245 lbs, 26 years old
Charles Barkley: 6'6", 250 lbs, 26 years old
Larry Nance: 6'9", 210 lbs, 30 years old
Tom Chambers: 6'9", 220, 30yo
Xavier McDaniel: 6'7", 210, 26yo
Dennis Rodman: 6'7", 210, 28yo
Kevin McHale: 6'10", 210, *32yo*

And now, some comps:

Emeka Okafor--6'9", 250 lbs, 24 years old
Averaged 2.6 blocks per game last year, against Malone's 0.6 in 1989

Tim Duncan--6'11", 260 lbs, 30 years old
Athletically, Barkley will win any matchup, any era

Andrei Kirilenko--6'9", 225, 26yo
Career numbers similar to Nance in 1989, but with an extra steal and an extra block per game

Chris Bosh--6'10", 230, 22yo
An inch, 10 pounds and 8 years on Chambers

Shawn Marion--6'7", 215, 28yo
McDaniel comps closer to Josh Howard than he does to any PF

Andris Biedrins--6'11", 240, 20yo
Rodman was a part-time starter (at small forward) in 1989; 30 pounds heavier, Biedrins matched his numbers from that year as closely as any current player

Antonio McDyess--6'9", 245, 32yo
Same age and role as McHale in 1989, McDyess was one of the better athletes in the history of the game in his prime



Put those 1989 and 2006 PFs on the same court, and the first thing you'd notice is that most of the 1989 guys are giving up 30 pounds to their counterparts, most of whom are also younger and move and jump just as well. So yes, based on that sample, I'd say modern players are more athletic.
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:35 PM   #84
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

Nance is the only player on that list who wasnt about as athletic as ever in 89. Mchale wasnt that athletic to begin with. Chambers most famous play(the Knee in Mark Jacksons chest dunk) was in 89. Bosh right now is no more athletic than Chambers was at 30.

And if you dont know most listings of old players have their rookie weights. Kevin Mchale was not 6'10'' and 210 in 1989. He was skinny but thats epic skinny. I was 208 at my biggest and im 6'3''. I doubt Charles Barkley was as small as 250 at any point after his rookie year. Nance had put on a good bit of muscle in Cleveland.

Things like this are why Wilt is often listed at 7'1'' 250-265 when he was 280-300 form like 67 to he retired. And why places like databasebasketball(who has the weights you listed) list Shaq at 300 pounds. Shaq has not been 300 pounds since he was 19. He came in at 301 having gained a few pounds of muscle between the predraft camp and the start of the season.

With the exception of Mchale all of those players would be among the most athletic 4s in the league then or now.
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:37 PM   #85
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Default Re: When you really write it out and look it over...are modern players more athletic?

The average NBA player today is more athletic I would say.

You have lots of guys in the NBA today who are terrific athletes, but are morons when it comes to basketball I.Q (see: the Portland Trailblazers for about the last 8 years). There are too many guys in the NBA today also have the mental maturity of a teenage boy ... which doesn't help.

There's no way Wilt was that skinny either. The guy was a monsterous human being simply put ... even Arnold Schwarzenneger (this is in the early 80s) said he was in awe of Wilt watching him in the weight room, the guy was freakishly strong to go with being huge.

Last edited by Soundwave : 09-09-2007 at 04:40 PM.
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