Kawhi can eliminate 15 different MVPS by the end of season

[ImKobe]

Bruh, I literally have no idea what you're arguing with me about RN.

Done arguing on this topic, we're on different sides here. You started by quoting me & saying that Lebron stat-padded as much as Kawhi (which wasn't true). My initial point was arguing that Kawhi was the FMVP and best player on the Spurs in that series due to what he did in 3 straight wins, then you took it as me saying that 2014 Kawhi was better overall than 2014 Lebron, which I never did. Kawhi was arguably better in 3 out of 5 games, but Lebron was so much better in the first 2 ones that he obviously was better overall for the series.

This was from one of my initial posts

So, if he was the Spurs' most efficient scorer for the series, and also outplayed the best player on the opposing team for 3 straight wins, does he not deserve to be recognized as the best player in the series? Obviously, it's tough to argue that Leonard was by far the Spurs' best player for the entire run, but he certainly was their best player when it came to them beating Miami, though they had great teamwork and others obviously deserve credit as well.

Ok, so him outplaying Lebron in a 3-game stretch does not make him better than Lebron over the course of the RS/POs/Finals, but it does make him the most valuable player on his team in that series. That's all that really matters. I don't care enough to keep this going.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

People also act like the teams were the same in both 13' and 14'. In 13' the Heat won 66 games and the Spurs 58 games; in 14' the Heat slipped to 54 wins and the Spurs improved to 62 wins. That is a swing (from Miami's perspective) from +8 to -8.

We saw what Miami was when LeBron left in 15' and they went from EC champs to 10th place.

Wade played 69 games in 2013 and just 53 in 2014, so that could be one reason for the drop off.

[insidious301]

This entire thread is about discussing the specific series of MVPS that Kawhi eliminated. You're the one who kept bringing up the cringe worthy "Manu was best player entire 2014 playoffs" argument.

Which I've outlayed the numbers for. To hammer home the point, we expanded the volume to the playoffs. This strengthens Manu's case. If you don't understand sample size, take up a math course.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Which I've outlayed the numbers for. To hammer home the point, we expanded the volume to the playoffs. This strengthens Manu's case. If you don't understand sample size, take up a math course.

Your entire argument is based on things like "rate" and "per 36" type stats. Nobody is ever going to buy into that. Manu was a negative BPM in 2 out of 3 games during the 3 game win stretch.

Game 3 win: Kawhi 39 minutes and 16.0 BPM, Manu 27 minutes and -3.9 BPM

Game 4 win: Kawhi 38 minutes and 15.9 BPM, Manu 27 minutes and -10.9 BPM

Game 5 win: Kawhi 34 minutes and 11.5 BPM, Manu 28 minutes and 7.1 BPM

So much for your "rate" stats. During that 3 game winning stretch, Kawhi has a 51.1 total BPM higher then Manu. Absolute crushed him. I didn't want to embarrass you man but you had it coming. +51.1 hahahha nice "rate" stats there Manu.

You should stick to watching DR J dominate the plumbers in ABA. 2010's NBA you don't know what the hell your rambling about.

[insidious301]

Your entire argument is based on things like "rate" and "per 36" type stats. Nobody is ever going to buy into that. Manu was a negative BPM in 2 out of 3 games during the 3 game win stretch.

Game 3 win: Kawhi 39 minutes and 16.0 BPM, Manu 27 minutes and -3.9 BPM

Game 4 win: Kawhi 38 minutes and 15.9 BPM, Manu 27 minutes and -10.9 BPM

Game 5 win: Kawhi 34 minutes and 11.5 BPM, Manu 28 minutes and 7.1 BPM

So much for your "rate" stats. During that 3 game winning stretch, Kawhi has a 51.1 total BPM higher then Manu. Absolute crushed him. I didn't want to embarrass you man but you had it coming. +51.1 hahahha nice "rate" stats there Manu.

You should stick to watching DR J dominate the plumbers in ABA. 2010's NBA you don't know what the hell your rambling about.

Your case was already weak, but now you're lamenting a puny 3 game sample. The 3ball school of thought. Three games aren't a big enough sample to gauge a BO7 series. That isn't how the real world operates or how you rate a players impact. When you only talk about finals play, Manu averaged more assists and the same ts% in less time. But also a higher BPM-VORP-PER rate. If we broaden the scope to playoff play overall, Manu wins there handily. You have a shaky grasp on how the numbers work, and certainly never watched that team play. Watch the games on youtube and read up on how the stats work. Maybe then you'll have a leg to stand on.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Your case was already weak, but now you're lamenting a puny 3 game sample. The 3ball school of thought. Three games aren't a big enough sample to gauge a BO7 series. That isn't how the real world operates or how you rate a players impact. When you only talk about finals play, Manu averaged more assists and the same ts% in less time. But also a higher BPM-VORP-PER rate. If we broaden the scope to playoff play overall, Manu wins there handily. You have a shaky grasp on how the numbers work, and certainly never watched that team play. Watch the games on youtube and read up on how the stats work. Maybe then you'll have a leg to stand on.

3 win sample size is plenty, that's 75% of the series wins.

Kawhi advantages over Manu during finals:

- PPG
- efficiency
- total BPM
- defense responsibility guarding LeBron
- Total minutes played

The argument is STACKED against Manu. While you desperately hold onto your "rate" stats.

[insidious301]

3 win sample size is plenty, that's 75% of the series.

Kawhi advantages over Manu during finals:

- PPG
- efficiency
- total BPM
- defense responsibility guarding LeBron
- Total minutes played

The argument is STACKED against Manu. While you desperately hold onto your "rate stats.

You still don't have a clue on how rate works. Classes are everywhere on the internet--go enroll in one. It's gotten so bad, you are now subtracting 2 games from a 5 game series. That is what we call cherrypicking. On a bigger sample, Manu's better play deflates your OP. He was the engine making that Spurs team go. This is backed by his cumulative playoff stats. And rate numbers in a puny 5 game sample. So go ahead and edit your topic now, it needs to be amended for Manu's play.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You still don't have a clue on how rate works. Classes are everywhere on the internet--go enroll in one. It's gotten so bad, you are now subtracting 2 games from a 5 game series. That is what we call cherrypicking. On a bigger sample, Manu's better play deflates your OP. He was the engine making that Spurs team go. This is backed by his cumulative playoff stats. And rate numbers in a puny 5 game sample. So go ahead and edit your topic now, it needs to be amended for Manu's play.

Rate numbers are worthless in a 5 game series.

- GmSc
- PPG
- Defense
- Total mins
- Total BPM
- efficiency

All these advantages for Kawhi and absolutely zero counter arguments from you.

[insidious301]

Rate numbers are worthless in a 5 game series.

- GmSc
- PPG
- Defense
- Total mins
- Total BPM
- efficiency

All these advantages for Kawhi and absolutely zero counter arguments from you.

But, they're context for a 5 games series that is combined for an entire playoff run. When the cumulative figures are tacked on, Manu has the clear advantage. If you need more help learning the numbers, throw me an email. I will forward it to you. In the meantime its best to change your OP and include Manu. For clarity purposes.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

But, they're context for a 5 games series that is combined for an entire playoff run. When the cumulative figures are tacked on, Manu has the clear advantage. If you need more help learning the numbers, throw me an email. I will forward it to you. In the meantime its best to change your OP and include Manu. For clarity purposes.

I gave you 6 different arguments lined up together and you failed to counter even 1 of them.

[insidious301]

I gave you 6 different arguments lined up together and you failed to counter even 1 of them.

They were debunked one by one. Then you resorted to a 3 game sample. That isn't how you evaluate a player. You were already given a larger scope, meaning a bigger sample. So for 2014 edit your title and body with "Manu was actually the Spurs best player"

[red1]

OP is absolutely retarded good lord



what type of retarded measuring scheme is that

[red1]

15 different MVPs. Names 4. Isiah Thomas eliminated 19 different MVPs. Greatest to ever do it?

actually nevermind this is just fine

[insidious301]

OP is absolutely retarded good lord



what type of retarded measuring scheme is that

He wanted to reduce the finals to a 3 game sample. And now is crying that I wont let him do it. When evaluating a player, we go by what actually happened and include all games. That is how the real world works.

[aj1987]

Done arguing on this topic, we're on different sides here.

That's what happens when you do not have a single FACT on your side.

You started by quoting me & saying that Lebron stat-padded as much as Kawhi (which wasn't true).

That's factually true. In fact, Kawhi had more garbage time points than LeBron in the series and played more minutes in garbage time. Even if you remove those points for LeBron, he would still be at ~25 PPG on close to 70% TS for the series.

My initial point was arguing that Kawhi was the FMVP and best player on the Spurs in that series due to what he did in 3 straight wins, then you took it as me saying that 2014 Kawhi was better overall than 2014 Lebron, which I never did. Kawhi was arguably better in 3 out of 5 games, but Lebron was so much better in the first 2 ones that he obviously was better overall for the series.

This was from one of my initial posts

Ok, so him outplaying Lebron in a 3-game stretch does not make him better than Lebron over the course of the RS/POs/Finals, but it does make him the most valuable player on his team in that series. That's all that really matters. I don't care enough to keep this going.

Read. Your. Post.

"does he not deserve to be recognized as the best player in the series?"