OKC is pure shit with Westbrook as the alpha...

[DMAVS41]

How hard is to understand the team is deeper than it was in 2014? Who cares about who Durant's replacement is, that doesn't matter.

Westbrook is playing with an improved Adams, improved Ibaka, better backup PG, Dion Waiters, Anthony Morrow, Enes Kanter.

13 points and 4 assists from Jackson is the difference though. LOL, thats mario chalmers shit.


It doesn't matter what impresses you. I'm telling you now his supporting cast is better than what Durant had.

And I'm telling you that I'm not jumping the gun on that when this Thunder team hasn't looked nearly as good as that 14 team when healthy.

Also, there is this thing called defense. The 14 Thunder were top 8 iirc...and this Thunder team probably isn't even top 15.

Got someone to just check for me as I'm typing.

14 Thunder - 6th best defense
16 Thunder - 17th best defense

That matters, a lot, in the regular season when a star goes down. Having a top 6 defense can help you win a lot of games...and is way more important, imo, than having a bit better offense....or at least a bit better offensive talent.

[imdaman99]

How hard is to understand the team is deeper than it was in 2014? Who cares about who Durant's replacement is, that doesn't matter.

Westbrook is playing with an improved Adams, improved Ibaka, better backup PG, Dion Waiters, Anthony Morrow, Enes Kanter.

13 points and 4 assists from Jackson is the difference though. LOL, thats mario chalmers shit.


It doesn't matter what impresses you. I'm telling you now his supporting cast is better than what Durant had.

No way. The role players on that team at least played defense. Let me remind you what a bunch of defensive players and 1 superstar can do... It was the year Rose won MVP. Who are the role players that can play D? Adams? Ibaka is alright I guess. Roberson is good too but I watched highlights of that Magic game and all he did was get 3 pointers rained on him by Oladipo.

Augustine
Morrow
Waiters
Singler
Kanter

Which one of them play defense? Waiters maybe? Augustine got lit the F up by Chalmers Westbrook went to the bench after the end of the 3rd quarters the last 2 games with the lead. He comes back in with OKC down 7-8 both times.

All I'm saying it's easier to replace Westbrook than Durant. So maybe like trade Westbrook this way

[HenryGarfunkle]

It's easier to replace Westbrook because Durant is the much better player and can make up deficiencies.

You put Durant on this same exact team without Westbrook and he wins just as many games as he did in 2014. That's because he's good enough to score 30+ points and maintain his great efficiency while closing out games.

Westbrook scores and assists more than usual with Durant out but the efficiency of the team drops and they have no one to close out tight games.

Durant won a ton of close games in 2014 because that's what he does... he's a closer. Westbrook isn't ...

So yes I agree with the both of you in certain ways. Durant is much harder to replace than Westbrook, we're in agreement there. But in terms of supporting cast this team is better than it was in 2014.

Roberson is about equal to Sefalosha both defensively and offensively.

Augustine is actually an upgrade from Derek Fisher.

Waiters is a big-time upgrade form Jeremy Lamb on that end.

Kanter's offense far outweighs whatever Perkins or Adams was giving you.

Not only does the team suffer offensively without Durant but they also suffer defensively too. And all that really means is that Durant is a far better player than Westbrook and can fill in holes that Westbrook can't.

[DMAVS41]

It's easier to replace Westbrook because Durant is the much better player and can make up deficiencies.

You put Durant on this same exact team without Westbrook and he wins just as many games as he did in 2014. That's because he's good enough to score 30+ points and maintain his great efficiency while closing out games.

Westbrook scores and assists more than usual with Durant out but the efficiency of the team drops and they have no one to close out tight games.

Durant won a ton of close games in 2014 because that's what he does... he's a closer. Westbrook isn't ...

So yes I agree with the both of you in certain ways. Durant is much harder to replace than Westbrook, we're in agreement there. But in terms of supporting cast this team is better than it was in 2014.

Roberson is about equal to Sefalosha both defensively and offensively.

Augustine is actually an upgrade from Derek Fisher.

Waiters is a big-time upgrade form Jeremy Lamb on that end.

Kanter's offense far outweighs whatever Perkins or Adams was giving you.

Not only does the team suffer offensively without Durant but they also suffer defensively too. And all that really means is that Durant is a far better player than Westbrook and can fill in holes that Westbrook can't.

But you are only speaking to "on paper" and "offense"...this team is not way better than 14 in reality. They have a poor defense and while the offense has been elite, it seems like something is missing. Basically...so far, the offense between the two teams is pretty much the same...the defense is much worse.

Which would make sense when you are having to get used to a brand new coach in his first 11 games.

I just don't think you grasp what a difference it makes having the 6th best defense vs the 17th best defense...especially when your a superstar is out with an injury.

[HenryGarfunkle]

But you are only speaking to "on paper" and "offense"...this team is not way better than 14 in reality. They have a poor defense and while the offense has been elite, it seems like something is missing. Basically...so far, the offense between the two teams is pretty much the same...the defense is much worse.

Which would make sense when you are having to get used to a brand new coach in his first 11 games.

I just don't think you grasp what a difference it makes having the 6th best defense vs the 17th best defense...especially when your a superstar is out with an injury.

Really? An 11 game sample size. Nice.

And yeah it's way harder defensively to replace Durant than Westbrook. Both ends of the court it's harder to replace him.

They have the same core of Ibaka/Adams, Roberson to replace Sef, and Waiters upgrading Lamb.

And it's been 11 games, so let's hold off on the analytics for now. I know how inept OKC was outside of Durant offensively and I watched him carry the team as the main scorer AND facilitator. He made up for what they lost with Westbrook by scoring more points on fantastic efficiency and closing out games.

Durant can win without Westbrook but Westbrook can't win without Durant. It's as simple as that.

[DMAVS41]

Really? An 11 game sample size. Nice.

And yeah it's way harder defensively to replace Durant than Westbrook. Both ends of the court it's harder to replace him.

They have the same core of Ibaka/Adams, Roberson to replace Sef, and Waiters upgrading Lamb.

And it's been 11 games, so let's hold off on the analytics for now. I know how inept OKC was outside of Durant offensively and I watched him carry the team as the main scorer AND facilitator. He made up for what they lost with Westbrook by scoring more points on fantastic efficiency and closing out games.

Durant can win without Westbrook but Westbrook can't win without Durant. It's as simple as that.

Listen to yourself. You want to hold off on an 11 game sample, but you are willing to make these conclusions after a 3 game sample without Durant?

Do you not remember me telling you early on that the sample is too small to draw conclusions from?

You aren't even making sense now...you are saying this team is clearly better than the 14 team...but the sample is too small to draw conclusions? Then how are you claiming this team is clearly better?

You realize players/teams actually have to prove that...right? You don't just get deemed better because you have more talent...right?

The 14 team proved they were good enough on both sides of the ball to challenge for a title. This Thunder team has absolutely not proven that as their defense...with Durant and without him...has been nowhere near good enough yet. Which, honestly, is what you'd expect with a new coach...and players like Morrow, Kanter, and Waiters getting as many minutes as they do.

WB and Durant have to get back to playing hard on defense like they did in 13 and 14...they don't do that consistently as much anymore and it's showing as this teams defense has dropped off considerably over the last 2 years.

[r0drig0lac]

Well we all know that isn't true, but it could very well mean that Donovan doesn't have a ****ing clue yet.

And when I've watched them...I'm leaning toward Donovan simply not being ready for the NBA.

was an irony read again

[HenryGarfunkle]

Listen to yourself. You want to hold off on an 11 game sample, but you are willing to make these conclusions after a 3 game sample without Durant?

Do you not remember me telling you early on that the sample is too small to draw conclusions from?

You aren't even making sense now...you are saying this team is clearly better than the 14 team...but the sample is too small to draw conclusions? Then how are you claiming this team is clearly better?

You realize players/teams actually have to prove that...right? You don't just get deemed better because you have more talent...right?

The 14 team proved they were good enough on both sides of the ball to challenge for a title. This Thunder team has absolutely not proven that as their defense...with Durant and without him...has been nowhere near good enough yet. Which, honestly, is what you'd expect with a new coach...and players like Morrow, Kanter, and Waiters getting as many minutes as they do.

WB and Durant have to get back to playing hard on defense like they did in 13 and 14...they don't do that consistently as much anymore and it's showing as this teams defense has dropped off considerably over the last 2 years.

You're a known Durant hater so I'm not gonna get into it with you.

Why'd they lose the close game against Boston? Tell me why. Because they have the 17th ranked defense or because Westbrook shot 5-20 from the field?

[DMAVS41]

was an irony read again

I saw the "ahahahahah"....just didn't know why you were laughing.

[DMAVS41]

You're a known Durant hater so I'm not gonna get into it with you.

Why'd they lose the close game against Boston? Tell me why. Because they have the 17th ranked defense or because Westbrook shot 5-20 from the field?

I'm not a Durant hater at all. That isn't even an argument.

The Boston game? Clearly they lost because WB shot poorly and nobody else was able to do anything on offense.

But I don't see the point. I could flip it and ask you why they lost the Grizzlies game last night...when WB was pretty great overall...but they lost because they got destroyed defensively.

Giving up a 126.3 ortg to the Grizzlies...LOL

[HenryGarfunkle]

I'm not a Durant hater at all. That isn't even an argument.

The Boston game? Clearly they lost because WB shot poorly and nobody else was able to do anything on offense.

But I don't see the point. I could flip it and ask you why they lost the Grizzlies game last night...when WB was pretty great overall...but they lost because they got destroyed defensively.

Giving up a 126.3 ortg to the Grizzlies...LOL

Conley and Chalmers being the main reasons...

I guess Westbrook's D doesn't have much impact. 8 turnovers doesn't help. Conley dropping 22 and 9 with zero turnovers is damn impressive.

[DMAVS41]

Conley and Chalmers being the main reasons...

I guess Westbrook's D doesn't have much impact. 8 turnovers doesn't help. Conley dropping 22 and 9 with zero turnovers is damn impressive.

Yea...WB was certainly part of the problem on defense, but he's not the only problem.

The defense just has not been good on this team so far. That, so far, is easily their biggest problem.

Nobody that watches them consistently thinks this defense has been good enough to contend for a title. If they don't fix it...they won't win it...and likely won't get out of round 2.

Now, they can fix it...or at least make it a bit better, but they do have some players that simply aren't ever going to be good defenders.

And I'm not a fan of Roberson/Waiters on this team at all...I actually just kind of hate it.

Presti has really ****ed up with this team since 13 imo.

[imdaman99]

Conley and Chalmers being the main reasons...

I guess Westbrook's D doesn't have much impact. 8 turnovers doesn't help. Conley dropping 22 and 9 with zero turnovers is damn impressive.

Westbrook was zoned in, in the 2nd half on D and Conley didn't do much. Chalmers lit up Augustin. Check where he did a lot of his scoring, it was on switches. Westbrook did everything he could against the Grizz, they had no way to stop him even though they had Tony Allen, Jeff Green, Gasol on him. It's not like Durant has some sort of history of beating the Grizz without Westbrook or something