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  1. #1636
    NJ Net Fan For Life. wang4three's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    I think Brandon's inconsistent play is the least of our worries. It's gonna happen with freshman and he's gonna learn as long as he has the right attitude. Being in the same class as DJ who's as hard of a worker and competitor as they come will really show him what it takes for him to become a better player.

    More importantly, we need to see Mike Davis get back into his groove. I really thought he was going to kick it up a notch this year and be our go-to guy on the offense and be a beast on the boards. He's been rebounding but his offense has been sorely lacking. Hopefully he finds his shot and rhythm soon. He was an absolute blast to watch develop last season.

  2. #1637
    Life goes on. ILLsmak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Brandon Paul is not my son, seriously...

    But I don't think he needs any lessons on work ethic. He and DJ are both hard workers. That is why the future looks so bright. And hey, we are undefeated in the big ten.

    I think it's great that people are working on their roles. I see DJ as a Luther Head type. We've never had a player like Paul, though... He's definitely not like Deron. We need to teach either Paul or DJ to be PG, though, because McCamey is less of a pg (lol, I know he's leading the big ten in assists...) than either of them.

    He's one of those "if I don't assist or score, I probably turn it over or miss" types and I don't see that as being good.

    About Davis, he's a finisher. That's another reason why we need 3 scorers. With Jordan and Cole in the game, he will struggle and end up shooting a contested 17 footer. But when our guards are attacking the rim and taking shots he can float out to his sweet spot and be wide or crash the offensive boards.

    I am most pleased with Tisdale. He is doing more than I ever thought he would. His post game is pretty good... enough to be a viable option. And he is getting his hands on a lot of balls for blocks, which is great. I was reading some idiot on espn.com saying Tizzy is not a D1 caliber player. loool. But whatever. As long as he is making that jumper, getting a good shot inside, and getting 2 blocks a game we'll take his "Juco talent."

    I hope we come out for Michigan state. I think we will play them tough for the first half, but I don't think we can hang with them right now. Talent wise, sure... but we are really struggling.

    Like I said, next year is our year!

    -Smak
    Last edited by ILLsmak; 01-14-2010 at 12:14 PM.

  3. #1638
    NJ Net Fan For Life. wang4three's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    I'm not trying to take a hit at Brandon's work ethic as I am about him getting involved in good graces with the coaching staff by doing what he's asked and inserting himself into the flow of the offense. A lot of times I feel Brandon will break a set by stopping ball movement or taking an early shot. DJ like we've all admitted has been taking rhythm shots and been patient with what's available to him.

    As far as Mike's concerned, yes. He is more of a finisher than creator and Chester/Trent were terrific in getting him the ball in places he could score. This year he's been getting the ball way too far out of his range or in awkward spots like with his back to the basket. I've never seen him back down and I don't think he's developed any moves for it.

  4. #1639
    NBA rookie of the year IlliniFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    First of all, neither DJ or Paul are anywhere near the PG that McCamey is, and they probably never will be. That's just not their position. And what else is there to do other than assist, score, turn it over, or miss. Notice how when McCamey is not on the floor, the offense becomes very stagnant? That's because he's our only true point, and our best passer. I'm not sure what your obsession with Paul is about, but right now, McCamey is the best player and best point guard on this team. You seem to have something against McCamey for some reason and it makes absolutely no sense because he's been playing out of his mind.

  5. #1640
    Life goes on. ILLsmak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    I don't have anything against any basketball player, let alone one that plays for my favorite team. If there was ever a player, it would have been Nick Smith... lol

    But anyway, McCamey is not a PG, either. Not even close. Jordan is the only player on our team who knows how to be a PG and he can't do anything because he sucks at shooting. McCamey takes horrible shots. He's just making them now. I'm glad for him, but it's best to have a 'real pg' on the floor because when he gets in a slump he needs to have the ball taken away.

    More proof that they don't have a true PG is the way that Bruce has to yank people when they are chucking. If we had a real PG, he would have that under control.

    I think Paul could be a PG pretty easily... and I take you up on your bet. I promise you by the time Paul leaves the Illini (more than likely before his Jr year), he will be a better decision maker than McCamey.

    Plus, as bruce said, McCamey's defense is horrible.

    Lastly, our offense gets stagnant because we have no other players who can score. lol. Especially when Paul is playing like 10 minutes a game. McCamey is kind of like Ben Gordon... he's good, but he shoots way too many horrible shots. Even worse shots than Paul. At least Paul's shots are open.

    Edit: My obsession w/ BP is that he is just good. He is one of the best prospects the Illini have ever had. I dunno why you aren't obsessed with him, too.

    -Smak

  6. #1641
    Decent college freshman TheGame414's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ILLsmak
    lol, "YEAH THAT'S IT."

    That's not at all what I said, man. I'm blaming Weber for putting him in a situation where it's very unlikely to succeed and then punishing him for failure. By the way, he doesn't make any more bad decisions than McCamey but plays much better defense. People love to talk about DJ's decision making, but they don't realize that when he gets the ball it's either make a move to score or pass for a score.

    Whatever, though... not worth arguing.

    -Smak
    He's making way more bad decisions than Demetri right now. Not on a per-minute basis. Just period. He made more bad decisions in a few minutes against Penn State than DMac did all game. Same against Indiana. I agree that BP3 is capable of playing better defense than DMac because he's a much better athlete, but do you seriously think he IS playing better defense?

    Really?

    He's late on rotations all the time, leaving three-point shooters open constantly. He loses his guy on boxouts regularly.

    In short, he's a freshman. A very gifted freshman with a long way to go. I think he's going to be great, and has had moments of greatness already. But Weber hasn't put him in a position to fail. There's plenty of things you can take Bruce to task for- as is the case with most coaches- but this isn't one of them. When he shook up the lineup, Brandon wasn't the first to go to the bench. D.J. and Demetri were. Brandon simply isn't playing well enough to stay on the court right now.

    If this was 2008 and the season was a lost cause, I'd be pissed that Bruce wasn't letting him play through it. He jerked Demetri around at times that year and at the time, I didn't agree; DMac was the future and needed the time in a season that was otherwise shot. (Although he averaged 27 minutes a game, so it's not like he was ever really tethered to the bench.)

    This season's not shot, though, and if Brandon Paul isn't helping us win, he can't stay on the court. Now, speaking of Demetri, I think despite whatever criticisms I've had of the way Bruce has handled him...it's fairly clear that he's pushed the right buttons. Demetri's becoming- perhaps already has became- an elite Big Ten player. Brandon's a little ahead of where DMac was as a freshman and is simply a different caliber of athlete, so I suspect the learning curve will be sharper for him and he may break out as a full-fledged star even earlier than DMac did.

    You again talk about D.J.'s decision-making being...I don't know, are you saying it's overrated? Anyway, you're again correct that he doesn't create as much, but that's a good thing right now. Brandon's trying to do way too much and would be best-served to let the game come to him like D.J. does. Maybe he'd be able to stay on the court longer.

  7. #1642
    Decent college freshman TheGame414's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ILLsmak
    I don't have anything against any basketball player, let alone one that plays for my favorite team. If there was ever a player, it would have been Nick Smith... lol

    But anyway, McCamey is not a PG, either. Not even close. Jordan is the only player on our team who knows how to be a PG and he can't do anything because he sucks at shooting. McCamey takes horrible shots. He's just making them now. I'm glad for him, but it's best to have a 'real pg' on the floor because when he gets in a slump he needs to have the ball taken away.

    More proof that they don't have a true PG is the way that Bruce has to yank people when they are chucking. If we had a real PG, he would have that under control.

    I think Paul could be a PG pretty easily... and I take you up on your bet. I promise you by the time Paul leaves the Illini (more than likely before his Jr year), he will be a better decision maker than McCamey.

    Plus, as bruce said, McCamey's defense is horrible.

    Lastly, our offense gets stagnant because we have no other players who can score. lol. Especially when Paul is playing like 10 minutes a game. McCamey is kind of like Ben Gordon... he's good, but he shoots way too many horrible shots. Even worse shots than Paul. At least Paul's shots are open.

    Edit: My obsession w/ BP is that he is just good. He is one of the best prospects the Illini have ever had. I dunno why you aren't obsessed with him, too.

    -Smak
    What team are you watching this season?

    Demetri's decision-making has been VERY good as of late. He struggled with turnovers for a few games early in the season, but the "Demetri McCamey isn't really a point guard" line of thought is ridiculously outdated. There was only a little bit of merit to it last year and he's twice the player he was last year.

    How many bad shots is he taking? Sure, he shoots quick jumpers sometimes, but he's not taking the hand-in-his-face, out of rhythm shots he used to take. He's not dribbling into trouble. He's shooting 48.1% from the floor. You seem to be implying that there's a strong element of good fortune to that, saying he's making bad shots. Not at all; his shooting percentage- and all-around statistics- are entirely reflective of the basketball he's playing. It's not that he's getting lucky making some ill-conceived shots, it's that he's capable of making difficult shots and is now doing so at a good percentage.

    But saying he's not a point guard is just stupifyingly wrong. You're talking about a guy who's in total control of the offense. No. 10 in the nation in assists, with a 29/5 A/TO rate in Big Ten play. If you're a "numbers don't mean anything" guy, just watch the game. Your TV must show different games than the ones I've attended and seen on TV. Demetri is running the offense brilliantly right now, attacking the defense when there's an opening, setting up outside shooters with the penetrate-and-kick, setting Tisdale up in the post. It's not just the points and assists but the total control of the offense. When other guys are scoring like earlier in the year, he was doing a great job of playing the setup man (see: Clemson game). When others are struggling, he's taken it on his shoulders.

    In other words, doing what needs to be done. THAT'S a point guard.

    Is he good defensively? No. But he's not bad, either. That's a perception that's been shaped by Bruce constantly badmouthing him to the media to motivate him, and it's just not true. He's never going to be a great defender because his feet just aren't that quick, but he doesn't kill you defensively like Brandon has with missed assignments. (Again, most freshmen do this. Don't confuse me being in touch with what's actually happening on the basketball court with being down on Brandon Paul. BP3 is going to be first-team All-Big Ten and possibly a 1st-round draft pick before he's done here.)

    Saying that McCamey is less of a point guard than DJ, Brandon or Jeff Jordan.....JEFF JORDAN? The guy who dribbles into traps nearly every trip down the court and is below-average in every facet of offensive basketball?

    This beyond opinion....you've moved into the realm of factually incorrect, to a dangerous degree. You're making my head hurt.
    Last edited by TheGame414; 01-14-2010 at 10:03 PM.

  8. #1643
    Decent college freshman TheGame414's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by wang4three
    I think Brandon's inconsistent play is the least of our worries.
    I'd say that wondering if a guy (McCamey) who's one of the 8-10 best point guards in the country and one of the five best players in the Big Ten is really a point guard, like our new friend is curiously doing, would be the least of our worries.

    Brandon Paul is absolutely high on our list of worries right now. We need to get back to getting double-digit scoring from him on a regular basis to be competitive with the upper-tier Big Ten teams. McCamey and Tisdale have been tremendous so far in conference play but the strength of this team should be the overall firepower and balanced scoring across the floor. So yeah, Davis and Paul are absolutely our biggest worries right now.

  9. #1644
    Life goes on. ILLsmak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    I'm not gonna address those two pages you wrote. You said yours, I said mine.

    However, I agree that they need to get Paul back to double digit scoring... and he's not gonna do that on the bench. I want to see him out there any time he isn't tired. I notice you didn't mention Bill Cole or Jeff Jordan... lol.

    -Smak

  10. #1645
    Life goes on. ILLsmak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=293360228

    Don't have short term memory loss...

    -Smak

  11. #1646
    NJ Net Fan For Life. wang4three's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGame414
    I'd say that wondering if a guy (McCamey) who's one of the 8-10 best point guards in the country and one of the five best players in the Big Ten is really a point guard, like our new friend is curiously doing, would be the least of our worries.

    Brandon Paul is absolutely high on our list of worries right now. We need to get back to getting double-digit scoring from him on a regular basis to be competitive with the upper-tier Big Ten teams. McCamey and Tisdale have been tremendous so far in conference play but the strength of this team should be the overall firepower and balanced scoring across the floor. So yeah, Davis and Paul are absolutely our biggest worries right now.
    I never have and never will expect consistency from any of our freshman, as much of a stud they are or not. As long as I've seen Bruce coach, I've seen highs and low points of every freshman that has come through. Brandon is in a slump, he's supposedly injured, and he doesn't strike me as a guy like Davis who seriously gets down on himself when he plays poorly. I don't think his confidence is exactly shaken and I don't think he's doubting himself.

    So no, as far as panicking and worrying over Paul, I'm not concerned and I don't think we should be.

  12. #1647
    Life goes on. ILLsmak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Man, I wonder why he sat Paul back down already. He made one shot and narrowly missed another. Not having McCamey or Paul on the floor is a recipe for disaster... Not to mention they are shafting the Illini w/ calls.

    -Smak

  13. #1648
    NJ Net Fan For Life. wang4three's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Brandon's 1-5 taking too many jump shots at the moment. He should be getting towards the basket trying to draw fouls.

  14. #1649
    NBA rookie of the year IlliniFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Brandon just takes bad shots. Griffey is playing very well however. Got a tip in and hit a couple nice jumpers. Defense needs to pick up in the 2nd half. I almost expect a come back from this team now. It's what they do.

  15. #1650
    Life goes on. ILLsmak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Fan Thread.

    Bradon is the only one that wants to shoot on the team... that one spin turnover was bad, but I think it'll be all good. I don't expect them to come back, but I have a weird feeling about keeping it close. I hope they make a run. WE just need some threes. They are pressing us and, as the announcers said, making us play 1v1... that's why we need to say 'screw it' and get some isos. Let BP and McCamey get some looks on a side where they can't help. Tizzy is going to be ref'd today.

    -Smak

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